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Is Ford lacking on performance?

UAmach1

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Taking it a bit back to the original topic.

Performance from everyone is up right now. Stock 35-40K mustangs doing 11.8-12.3's, stock luxury family sedans doing mid 12's for under 50K. Both automatics.

The line between "normal car" and "muscle/sports car" is blurring. It's becoming a thing that unless you want a pure track monster nearly every "performance" car in the 35-55K bracket will perform VERY similar, but just vary on features and build quality.

I mean look at the example of the Q50 Red Sport I have. It's a 63K sticker car with discounts down to about 48K. It can move the family, has AWD, and will pull a 12.6 at the track. Is it a little slower than the GT? Sure. But it has better build quality, comfortably sets 4, will be better in the snow, and on the highway I get v6 MPG, not v8. I can slap on a tune, catback and roll with a 2018 5.0 with out giving up ANY creature comforts, or compromises.

Do i still love the SOUND of the v8 better? Heck yes.
Do I find it more FUN to break the rear loose than always have instant traction? Again, Heck yes.

But we can now have a quiet, smooth driving, no compromise family car that will not only take your grandmas to church but also take you down the 1/4 in 11's with just exhaust work and proper tuning. What we drive today used to be supercar numbers, and these aren't even higher end sports cars. Not to long ago you had to do full engine work and FI to get 11's and more than that to get 10's. Now, its just basic bolt-ons to get near 10's in a FAMILY CAR.

So i wouldn't say that Ford is LACKING performance. It's just that all of the market is better and wondering where to go. I think this is why we are starting to see the GT350 and ZL1 that are much better at handling. They are realizing that its getting harder to get more 1/4 speed out of daily cars, not everyone will see any need or want for a 10second family car. Also Electric cars are starting to get into the market.
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Fatguy

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Just a reference from one of the reviewers, and it sounds like there's more to it than just finding an item to list as a negative:

Edit: The URL was to start where he covers the suspension, but that got lost, so jump to the 9 minute mark



Not a negative review by any means, and I think he makes the point that you just need to know what you're looking for when you buy it.

Those dampers used in the car are similar to those used in F1. Where else will you get that level of performance. That is bragging rights in my book - F1. If he bitches about the potholes then find a better road...
 

xDUMPWEEDx

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You know when magazine editors (who are known to favor performance) start complaining about the ride that you have a problem.
You just dropped the "M" word. You realize that word is punishable by instant ban on these forums? Especially when it contradicts Ford fanboy ideology and perceptions.

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millhouse

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Those dampers used in the car are similar to those used in F1. Where else will you get that level of performance. That is bragging rights in my book - F1. If he bitches about the potholes then find a better road...
Haha, those weren't potholes....in a part of the country where potholes really don't exist like others.



Watch how harsh the ride is over those small bumps. Starting at 5:18

And for the record, with a properly setup chassis designed for multimatic suspension, the ride doesn't have to be complete trash.

A review on the Ford GT....

"Randy otherwise had very favorable impressions of the GT: “It feels relatively soft for a supercar. It’s not a harsh car, and I like that, especially for a spool-valve car. It’s not harsh on the racetrack. This track has bumpy brake zones, and I’m not feeling it at all. The car is soaking that up nicely. It soaks up nicely all the way through Turn 8—which feels bumpy in some cars—even at that low ride height"

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/gt/2017/2017-ford-gt-first-test-review/
 

2018OFPP1?2

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Those dampers used in the car are similar to those used in F1. Where else will you get that level of performance. That is bragging rights in my book - F1. If he bitches about the potholes then find a better road...
Bounced around like a pogo stick. And did he say 3,500 rpm in 6th at 75 mph? Sounds super streetable :doh:
 

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xDUMPWEEDx

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Bounced around like a pogo stick.
Sounds like the Focus RS. My favorite quote from an RS review...
Mark McNabb said:
The car instantly feels as if it’s riding on wooden blocks. Bumps come across like depth charges in a WWII-era submarine. The plastic panels inside the relatively quiet cabin begin rattling, along with any loose objects floating around. Turn the radio off and you can even hear the gasket between the driver’s door and B-pillar squeaking from movement.
 

Fatguy

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Bounced around like a pogo stick. And did he say 3,500 rpm in 6th at 75 mph? Sounds super streetable :doh:
Guys those Mulimatic dampers are the best in the world and the best you can get period. To have them on a production car instead of the 24hrs of Le Mans is a rare treat (at its height 50% of the field ran these dampers).

He only said ouch a couple of times on a bad road. Looking at the guy I think he is very overweight and probably has a bad back. The scrawny fit guys would have no problem. Heck I’m pushing 60 and would ride all day in that thing. Lose the weight and then bitch. Otherwise man up or slip a hemmoroid pillow under the seat! :lol:
 

millhouse

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My favorite quote...

“I know Jonny loves this car, but I just can’t warm to it. Probably because I’ve lost all my fillings, and my kidneys are bruised. With the exception of the best roads, the ride in this Camaro is punishing. I’ve encountered smoother paint mixers. I had to remind myself that based on the numbers, this car is fantastic. Endless grip, fade-free brakes, abundant horsepower. But the thing is, I didn’t care. The bouncing was so bad that I found myself reacting to that instead of focusing on sheer act of driving. The Camaro might be brilliant on the track, but I wouldn’t want to drive this to get there.” – Derek Powell"

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-4th-place-2017-best-drivers-car/
 

Fatguy

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My favorite quote...

“I know Jonny loves this car, but I just can’t warm to it. Probably because I’ve lost all my fillings, and my kidneys are bruised. With the exception of the best roads, the ride in this Camaro is punishing. I’ve encountered smoother paint mixers. I had to remind myself that based on the numbers, this car is fantastic. Endless grip, fade-free brakes, abundant horsepower. But the thing is, I didn’t care. The bouncing was so bad that I found myself reacting to that instead of focusing on sheer act of driving. The Camaro might be brilliant on the track, but I wouldn’t want to drive this to get there.” – Derek Powell"

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-4th-place-2017-best-drivers-car/

How many times do we have to say this. The ZL1 1LE is not a daily driver. I haven’t heard anyone here say that it was. Can you drive it to your local track or event? Sure! Even cruise down a favourite strip to show off the thing.


This is a no compromise sports car! And I for one endorse this design philosophy!
 

millhouse

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How many times do we have to say this. The ZL1 1LE is not a daily driver. I haven’t heard anyone here say that. Can you drive it to your local track or event? Sure! Even cruise down a favourite strip to show off the thing.


This is a no compromise sports car! And I for one endorse this design philosophy!
And it's something that in no way belongs on any mustang without a complete suspension re-design as to not sacrifice all road manners. And that is my point, the multimatic suspension doesn't have to ride like the ZL1 1LE, it only does so because the car wasn't originally engineered for such suspension...and compromises were made for ring times.

Anyone who buys the ZL1 1LE and doesn't use it as a dedicated track car is a complete idiot. Speaking of idiot's, I recall folks who purchased them on another forum and were trying to find out how to modify the suspension because they couldn't drive it on their local roads....it was rattling the car apart. Marvelous engineering that is.
 

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Fatguy

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And it's something that in no way belongs on any mustang without a complete suspension re-design as to not sacrifice all road manners. And that is my point, the multimatic suspension doesn't have to ride like the ZL1 1LE, it only does so because the car wasn't originally engineered for such suspension...and compromises were made for ring times.

Anyone who buys the ZL1 1LE and doesn't use it as a dedicated track car is a complete idiot. Speaking of idiot's, I recall folks who purchased them on another forum and were trying to find out how to modify the suspension because they couldn't drive it on their local roads....it was rattling the car apart. Marvelous engineering that is.

Get more forgiving wheels if it will fit over the brakes. I don’t know
about that stuff as I would not do that.

There are V6 Mustang autox cars that have that problem. Life...
 

Norm Peterson

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I'm waiting for somebody to give an honest ride-oriented comparison between the ZL1 1LE and the 5th gen Z/28. An evaluation with no agenda behind it and one that doesn't search for new superlatives or words chosen for shock-value to insert editorial bias.


Norm
 
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UAmach1

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I've dont heard of anyone that enjoys DDing the z/28. I had looked into one and it sounded like a nightmare with how stiff it is.
 

Norm Peterson

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I've dont heard of anyone that enjoys DDing the z/28. I had looked into one and it sounded like a nightmare with how stiff it is.
I actually drove one, and it didn't seem all that bad at all. Only drove it a little, and rode in it some more, but that was more than enough for me to absolutely know I could DD it.


Norm
 

martinjlm

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I've dont heard of anyone that enjoys DDing the z/28. I had looked into one and it sounded like a nightmare with how stiff it is.
Norm Peterson said:
I actually drove one, and it didn't seem all that bad at all. Only drove it a little, and rode in it some more, but that was more than enough for me to absolutely know I could DD it.
I drove one for the better part of a day. I would personally never DD one. Not because of the ride. I’ve driven harsher suspensions for longer. The 1-speaker audio and optional AC would irritate me long before the suspension bothered me.

The one I drove did not have AC. It didn’t take long for me to realize that if I were to have one, DD or not, it would absolutely have to have AC.
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