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PP brake pad temp range?

BmacIL

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Wow that is wacky. The PP rotors have the vents on the inside.

Doing the 60-10 and 80-10 stops was a bit of a challenge on some back roads near my house. I think if I had done another 10, lunch would have been replayed in reverse. :barf:
As they should.
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sonicc

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The issue is that because of the design of the rotor, no brake cooling ducts will be effective at all. The vents are on the outside.
Holy sh*t I didn't even notice this until I read the Vorshlag thread and took off the rotors yesterday. I assumed they had those vents inside and outside for some reason, but no they're only outside. Makes no sense

mind = blown

I'm curious if S197 front rotors would work with S550?
 

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Do any of the non PP aftermarket rotors have the vanes on the inside and if so wouldn't this a good option? The non PP Baer 2 piece pictures show a traditional rear vane setup but I don't know of the pictures are just stock pictures or the real product.
 

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Do any of the non PP aftermarket rotors have the vanes on the inside and if so wouldn't this a good option? The non PP Baer 2 piece pictures show a traditional rear vane setup but I don't know of the pictures are just stock pictures or the real product.
That's a good question. I was looking on Rockauto and American muscle and going by pictures it looks like all the non-PP brake rotors have the same design.
 

BmacIL

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Do any of the non PP aftermarket rotors have the vanes on the inside and if so wouldn't this a good option? The non PP Baer 2 piece pictures show a traditional rear vane setup but I don't know of the pictures are just stock pictures or the real product.
No, from what I can tell. Looked at everything on Rockauto as well as DBA, Stoptech, Powerstop.

I did email both DBA and Powerstop about this. DBA got back to me with some technical info on why they may have gone with outer facing vanes, but it left me more questions than answers. I've sent a follow-up.
 

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You can just add brake cooling ducts, it will allow the external vanes to transfer heat more effectively. Focused cool air on the inside of the hub and the air pumping through the outside mounted vanes will drop temperatures. It appears thermal transfer can be challenging to understand. If you supply moving air over a surface of a higher temperature you will lower the temperature of that surface. Also most of the issues being reported point to a bedding issue causing extreme temperatures. Rotor prep and pre-bed pads solve a lot of these issues. Again these work fine and if they are not enough with the planned intentions the PP option becomes an extremely good value over a $3800 brake upgrade which is the marketing spin for the mentioned blog post. $3800 brake kit vs. $4K PP option. You choose.
 

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Examples of external vane inlet rotors. I haven't been able to find any explanation of why but can guess at two such as packaging or availability of air through the wheels instead of from under a hot vehicle through the dust shield. Note that the dust shield for my 18 GTPP has a small opening for air which comes from the bigger in 18 splitter air channels and the deflector on a suspension arm. Meanwhile even though the front fascia opening which directed air to the outside of the wheels previously is blocked on the 18 GTPP rumor has it that the opening is still open for the normal GT's. There is a lot going on here that it would be nice to know details about.

The first picture is of a roughly 2008 Dodge Caliber per a random Google search. The other two are Baer pictures again from a random Google search for 2015 Mustang brakes.

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BmacIL

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You can just add brake cooling ducts, it will allow the external vanes to transfer heat more effectively. Focused cool air on the inside of the hub and the air pumping through the outside mounted vanes will drop temperatures. It appears thermal transfer can be challenging to understand. If you supply moving air over a surface of a higher temperature you will lower the temperature of that surface. Also most of the issues being reported point to a bedding issue causing extreme temperatures. Rotor prep and pre-bed pads solve a lot of these issues. Again these work fine and if they are not enough with the planned intentions the PP option becomes an extremely good value over a $3800 brake upgrade which is the marketing spin for the mentioned blog post. $3800 brake kit vs. $4K PP option. You choose.
Yes but forcing air directly at the friction surface can cause significant thermal stress from the high gradient. Forcing air to the hub area will cool the rotors, but just nowhere near as effectively as if the vanes were inboard. Agreed that there definitely seemed to be a bedding issue, as the results seemed a bit extreme.
 

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I installed the Powerstop Track Day pads on Friday and had a chance to try them out on Saturday. I was still on stock non-PP pads before switching to these, so to me it seems like they grab a lot harder. Also pedal feel is much firmer and I'm able to get into ABS much easier, but that may be due to Motul 600.

Initial/cold bite seems good, I haven't heard any squealing even in 25 degree weather we had over the weekend. They do dust quite a bit. This is after one 20 min session:
EehSWt2.jpg


Overall they seem pretty good.
 

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^ Good to hear. I ordered a set for my non-PP setup and will be doing a 2 day event with my Mustang at a brake heavy track (Eagles Canyon) April 21-22. I'm an instructor and pretty hard on the brakes so this should be a pretty good test for them. I only track this car once or twice a year so I don't want to invest in upgrading to full track setup.
 

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BmacIL

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I installed the Powerstop Track Day pads on Friday and had a chance to try them out on Saturday. I was still on stock non-PP pads before switching to these, so to me it seems like they grab a lot harder. Also pedal feel is much firmer and I'm able to get into ABS much easier, but that may be due to Motul 600.

Initial/cold bite seems good, I haven't heard any squealing even in 25 degree weather we had over the weekend. They do dust quite a bit. This is after one 20 min session:
EehSWt2.jpg


Overall they seem pretty good.
Mine have started squealing pretty consistently now unless I brake firmly. Kinda wondering if I have to re-bed them.
 
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lugz

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Mine have started squealing pretty consistently now unless I brake firmly. Kinda wondering if I have to re-bed them.
Man, that stinks. Mine are still quiet as a mouse under all conditions. In daily driving conditions, they even seem to dust *LESS* than the stockers, which is pretty amazing. Only downside I've seen so far is they are noticeably more cold-natured than stock pads for the first few stops after leaving the house in the morning, but even so nothing like the Hawk DTC-30 or DTC-60.

Did you goop the crap out of the pads with the supplied brake-quiet goo? I used up the entire packets contained in the brake kit and added a little more in the key places. (that stuff usually doesn't seem to survive a track day, but my brakes have stayed quiet.)

Also, is it possible that the PP and the non-PP pads may actually get different compounds? Aren't these pads supposed to be formulated on a per-application basis? Maybe the non-PP pads are more aggressive to make up for the smaller rotors.
 

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BmacIL

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Man, that stinks. Mine are still quiet as a mouse under all conditions. In daily driving conditions, they even seem to dust *LESS* than the stockers, which is pretty amazing. Only downside I've seen so far is they are noticeably more cold-natured than stock pads for the first few stops after leaving the house in the morning, but even so nothing like the Hawk DTC-30 or DTC-60.

Did you goop the crap out of the pads with the supplied brake-quiet goo? I used up the entire packets contained in the brake kit and added a little more in the key places. (that stuff usually doesn't seem to survive a track day, but my brakes have stayed quiet.)

Also, is it possible that the PP and the non-PP pads may actually get different compounds? Aren't these pads supposed to be formulated on a per-application basis? Maybe the non-PP pads are more aggressive to make up for the smaller rotors.
I got a solid amount of it on the backing plate. Maybe it needs more. I didn't really have enough in the provided packets to do all the pins AND the backing plates, had to use another one to supplement. I doubt the compounds are any different. It's entirely possible that my current driving, unseasonably cold weather, and inability to really bed them to the procedure (which is kind of insane) are causes.
 

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