Why is there such a giant hole in the market

tbonez3858 · Aug 8, 2014

There seems to be a huge hole in the current car market for sporty small/mid sized four door American made performance car. If you want a four door with impressive performance you are almost forced to go the European or Japanese routes. It would seem to me that one of the American manufacturers could mop up the market (hint hint Ford)...In this segment you typically get a lethargic V6 thats just enough to break into the five second 0-60 range or you get a wound tight 4 cylinder turbo. Could you imagine a small/mid sized four door hoon mobile with a V8 or twin t V6?

Exciting 4 doors mid-sized
M3
STI
EVO
S3
S4
AMG 45
335 (not so exciting)
C63

American made?
ATS-V ....Future
GNX...Possible future

Close but no cigar
IS350 F sport
ATS V6
C350 sport
SS - not really in the same class
S5- not really in the same class

I bet the M4 sells the pants off of the M3....Maybe Ford should watch and take note.

mikeyw · Aug 8, 2014

The M4 probably will sell more, but that's a 2 door coupe.

tbonez3858 · Aug 8, 2014

mikeyw said:
The M4 probably will sell more, but that's a 2 door coupe.

OOPS sorry I got that mixed up..The M3 (four door) will outsell the M4 (two door)...Sorry for the mix up.

It seems BMW and Mercedes have this market completely to themselves like Jeep and the Wrangler. The US's only hope is the ATS-V at this point. If Ford come come out with something that had the 5.0 in it in a smaller package I think they would blow the lid off of this market.

Grimace427 · Aug 8, 2014

tbonez3858 said:
OOPS sorry I got that mixed up..The M3 (four door) will outsell the M4 (two door)...Sorry for the mix up.

It seems BMW and Mercedes have this market completely to themselves like Jeep and the Wrangler. The US's only hope is the ATS-V at this point. If Ford come come out with something that had the 5.0 in it in a smaller package I think they would blow the lid off of this market.

Edit, you already fixed it.

While I love exciting cars in all spots of the market, the truth is total sales of an expensive performance version of a mid size sedan will have very low total sales each year, lower than the Mustang for sure. It won't have an 'identity' like the M3/4 or AMG so it would have to fight for approval at the same time as sales.

tbonez3858 · Aug 8, 2014

Grimace427 said:
Edit, you already fixed it.

While I love exciting cars in all spots of the market, the truth is total sales of an expensive performance version of a mid size sedan will have very low total sales each year, lower than the Mustang for sure. It won't have an 'identity' like the M3/4 or AMG so it would have to fight for approval at the same time as sales.

I always mess up the 2 door/4 door thing with the M series since the change...I have a nasty habit of once I get something wrong I get it wrong over and over again. I guess M4 seems like it should have 4 doors...:doh:

The sales figures show that the typical sedan sales of the old M3 far outweighed the two door version.

B-Fox · Aug 8, 2014

I think Ford is missing a great opportunity for a performance Fusion model.

a Fusion ST with the 2.3L Ecoboost, AWD and a manual 6 speed.
oh man, I'd buy that over an ecoboost Mustang any day.

My wifes 2013 Fusion titanium, 2.0L ecoboost FWD is a phenominal car,
I absolutely love driving it, the handling is tight and "flat" like what we've seen from the new Mustang. The 2.0L has a surprising amount of torque.

I do wish it was AWD, wheel hop on agressive starts is it's one serious fault being FWD, AWD was available but I couldn't justify the cost now that we live in FL and didn't really need it for her "commute" car.

Grimace427 · Aug 8, 2014

B-Fox said:
I think Ford is missing a great opportunity for a performance Fusion model.

a Fusion ST with the 2.3L Ecoboost, AWD and a manual 6 speed.
oh man, I'd buy that over an ecoboost Mustang any day.

My wifes 2013 Fusion titanium, 2.0L ecoboost FWD is a phenominal car,
I absolutely love driving it, the handling is tight and "flat" like what we've seen from the new Mustang. The 2.0L has a surprising amount of torque.

I do wish it was AWD, wheel hop on agressive starts is it's one serious fault being FWD, AWD was available but I couldn't justify the cost now that we live in FL and didn't really need it for her "commute" car.

A sporty Fusion would definitely be an awesome car, just as long as it doesn't become too expensive. If it started around $30k max with maybe a $35k premium version that would sell very well. Their last Fusion Sport seemed like a very cool car, but I never saw very many of them.

tbonez3858 · Aug 8, 2014

If it could break the five second mark and have excellent handling it would be an hit...

908ssp · Aug 8, 2014

I was just thinking last night I want the Eco-boost V6 from the Taurus in a Fusion wagon for next daily driver.

tbonez3858 · Aug 8, 2014

908ssp said:
I was just thinking last night I want the Eco-boost V6 from the Taurus in a Fusion wagon for next daily driver.

If they made an SVT version Sedan/Wagon with aesthetic upgrades it would blow up...

Wildcat · Aug 8, 2014

With all the power that tuners like Livernois are getting out of the current 2.0L Fusion with just a quick tune, Ford may not even need to put a new motor in the Fusion in order to make a sport model. Simply use more aggressive tuning, and maybe they can massage some other components. That would keep costs down.

Livernois was getting 20+hp and 60+ tq gains from their tunes.

TeamEpsilonRacing · Aug 8, 2014

It's all a numbers game. There simply isn't room in Fords current lineup between the highest end Focus and the lowest end Fusion without disrupting sales of either of the two and possibly the mustang. The problem is American car companies seem to like FWD a lot. The Fusion could be slimmed down, made sportier and RWD with an AWD option for my friends that have snow. IMO the Fusion is just so lackluster it could use a bit of sprucing up to become a 3 series, a4, c class and g37 fighter.

Mikes5.0 · Aug 8, 2014

Would have been nice if ford would have shipped the FPV Falcon over or some variant of a rwd sedan with the coyote engine.

SynisterGT · Aug 8, 2014

Mikes5.0 said:
Would have been nice if ford would have shipped the FPV Falcon over or some variant of a rwd sedan with the coyote engine.

This. Especially to compete with the Charger and 300.

OppoLock · Aug 8, 2014

tbonez3858 said:
There seems to be a huge hole in the current car market for sporty small/mid sized four door American made performance car. If you want a four door with impressive performance you are almost forced to go the European or Japanese routes. It would seem to me that one of the American manufacturers could mop up the market (hint hint Ford)...In this segment you typically get a lethargic V6 thats just enough to break into the five second 0-60 range or you get a wound tight 4 cylinder turbo. Could you imagine a small/mid sized four door hoon mobile with a V8 or twin t V6?

Exciting 4 doors mid-sized
M3
STI
EVO
S3
S4
AMG 45
335 (not so exciting)
C63

American made?
ATS-V ....Future
GNX...Possible future

Close but no cigar
IS350 F sport
ATS V6
C350 sport
SS - not really in the same class
S5- not really in the same class

I bet the M4 sells the pants off of the M3....Maybe Ford should watch and take note.

A 335i/435i are the exact same thing as an S4 or S5. This just goes to show how good Audi is at tricking people with badging and marketing.

A4/S4 = 328i/335i
A5/S5 = 428i/435i
RS4/RS5 = M3/M4

Why is there such a giant hole in the market

tbonez3858

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mikeyw

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tbonez3858

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Grimace427

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tbonez3858

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B-Fox

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Grimace427

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tbonez3858

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908ssp

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tbonez3858

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Wildcat

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TeamEpsilonRacing

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Mikes5.0

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SynisterGT

Kooks + Corsa FTW!!

OppoLock

RWD Addict