Non ethanol

Funny reading all the comments.

We have a couple stations that have 91 non-ethanol.

The main reason I like using it is because the gas in your tank won't go bad

if it sits for a long time like gas with ethanol will. Being in Buffalo our nice cars

sit for months on end till spring comes back. Its not to say i have never had ethanol

gas in the car. When on road trips you take what you can get.

Plus the non-ethanol gas is great for use in the lawn mower, snow blower, etc

for the same reasons.

skistoy said:

Funny reading all the comments.

We have a couple stations that have 91 non-ethanol.

The main reason I like using it is because the gas in your tank won't go bad

if it sits for a long time like gas with ethanol will. Being in Buffalo our nice cars

sit for months on end till spring comes back. Its not to say i have never had ethanol

gas in the car. When on road trips you take what you can get.

Plus the non-ethanol gas is great for use in the lawn mower, snow blower, etc

for the same reasons.

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It's not so much that it goes bad. With modern E10, the oxidative stability is good enough that you would have to store it a couple years to see real degradation (we did this research at my previous company). The main issue is condensation, from hot and cold cycles, during storage. Ethanol has a higher affinity for water than gasoline. Water and gasoline separate. The ethanol portion can hold a small percentage of water, but once it gets to a certain point, your ethanol drops out with the water. Once that happens, you lose octane. That is when you get serious engine issues. E10 also has more solvency, which can eat away at older seals. For a modern car, E10 is fine for short term storage with climate control. If you are storing for more than a year, or the vehicle will see a lot of large temperature swing, it is best to use E0. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/waterphs.pdf

bootlegger said:

It's not so much that it goes bad. With modern E10, the oxidative stability is good enough that you would have to store it a couple years to see real degradation (we did this research at my previous company). The main issue is condensation, from hot and cold cycles, during storage. Ethanol has a higher affinity for water than gasoline. Water and gasoline separate. The ethanol portion can hold a small percentage of water, but once it gets to a certain point, your ethanol drops out with the water. Once that happens, you lose octane. That is when you get serious engine issues. E10 also has more solvency, which can eat away at older seals. For a modern car, E10 is fine for short term storage with climate control. If you are storing for more than a year, or the vehicle will see a lot of large temperature swing, it is best to use E0. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/waterphs.pdf

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I don't know - I feel like you must have missed something or there is something missing from your explanation. What I notice is ethanol blends will smell bad - like varnish or something in only a couple months. I always associate it with the fuel components separating or something falling out of solution. You've studied this you should know way more than I do, but the results of using ethanol gas that has been stored seems to go beyond the effects of a little more moisture in the fuel. Ethanol fuel will gum up carbs - especially on small engines. It doesn't take more than a month or two of leaving ethanol fuel in an engine for this to happen.

Hack said:

I don't know - I feel like you must have missed something or there is something missing from your explanation. What I notice is ethanol blends will smell bad - like varnish or something in only a couple months. I always associate it with the fuel components separating or something falling out of solution. You've studied this you should know way more than I do, but the results of using ethanol gas that has been stored seems to go beyond the effects of a little more moisture in the fuel. Ethanol fuel will gum up carbs - especially on small engines. It doesn't take more than a month or two of leaving ethanol fuel in an engine for this to happen.

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We tested thousands of samples, even using accelerated methods (forcing oxidation), and E10 is no less stable than E0. Small engines sit for a longer period of time without being used, so the condensation builds quicker and phase separation is more common. Older small engines have improper seals for E10, so any gumming would be from the breakdown of seal material. I used to attend the small engine manufacturer conferences, and even they admit newer seals in new engines are 100% safe for E10. They were only concerned with the move to E15. Any smell difference would be from the solvent-like smell of ethanol, aerobic bacteria in the water separation, or additives in the fuel. Ethanol fuels, due to solvency, will generally remove varnish and deposits. This can end up causing injector issues, if used in a dirty fuel system. The biggest risk from E10 came with older distillation methods, which lead to a sulfate contamination on internal parts (white buildup). Those quality issues are long gone today.

I can still get non-ethanol, 91 octane at a few locations here in the middle of nowhere, BP being the most readily available and then I use Boostane, Torco, or Klotz Octane Booster to bring my fuel load up to 93 octane for the tune I have.

My S550 is not my Daily, so I don't fuel up that often especially during the winter and my '16 GT spends most of the winter in a my CC garage.

Here in Iowa, the ethanol producers have a large political lobby they use to force-feed ethanol blended fuels to the entire country . :rant:

"Regular unleaded with up to 10% ethanol has an equivalent storage life to regular petrol. As with regular petrol, when using an engine after a period of storage, always top up with a third of fresh fuel first. With ethanol blends, this will remove trace water and dry the system out as well as freshening up the old fuel."
https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-c.../opal-fuel/Opal-factsheet-storagehandling.pdf
Straight from the guys making it. Basically, all fuel in vented storage can break down, and E10 is equivalent to E0. The main difference is the affinity for water. The recommend topping off a tank in both situations. In a sealed tank with climate controlled storage, both E10 and E0 will last a couple years.

I prefer 100% gas,not a filler with my gas. Ethanol is only good for one thing,corn growers lol

Madtel4 said:

What money? That you don't have, are you sending to which states?? That's the hell of it I love your state. I just wonder about your people.
Lee

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We pay more to the Federal government than we receive. Your States LIVE off our tax dollars. California is the economic powerhouse behind America. So I don't know where you get your information but it is not correct.

Anyway. I've never driven a road better than PCH up to Big Sur.

robertwsimpson said:

don't forget the 5 AND 101!

I live in NorCal.

Also, good things: good wine for cheap, and the largest beer selection I've ever seen.

Also, SOURDOUGH. and amazing pizza.

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Fieldwork, Altamont, and Faction: three AWESOME reasons to live in the bay.

Might be coming back soon :cheers:

I've had fieldwork. Never had the others.

robertwsimpson said:

don't forget the 5 AND 101!

I live in NorCal.

Also, good things: good wine for cheap, and the largest beer selection I've ever seen.

Also, SOURDOUGH. and amazing pizza.

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Best pizza I've ever had was at Bar Bocce in Sausalito!

Rasn1320 said:

I prefer 100% gas,not a filler with my gas. Ethanol is only good for one thing,corn growers lol

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Or cheap race gas if you like fast cars

robertwsimpson said:

and amazing pizza.

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maybe for CA pizza

There's a lot of gas stations that sell marine fuel here in South Florida, very easy to find.

There is a VP Racing fuels 10 minutes away that has up to 110 octane ethanol free. And you pay AFTER you fill up

I run a tank of 91 e10 about once a month. The rest of the time e85. Yesterday I paid $2.20 per gal. vs $3.30 for premium. California added yet another gasoline tax earlier this year BUT, in their infinite wisdom, made e85 exempt because it is so clean-burning. And the Voodoo loves it.