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Non ethanol

Hack

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I run a tank of 91 e10 about once a month. The rest of the time e85. Yesterday I paid $2.20 per gal. vs $3.30 for premium. California added yet another gasoline tax earlier this year BUT, in their infinite wisdom, made e85 exempt because it is so clean-burning. And the Voodoo loves it.
Clean burning and good at lining politicians' pockets with money from the companies that make ethanol.
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bootlegger

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Clean burning and good at lining politicians' pockets with money from the companies that make ethanol.
Coming from the petrochemical world, the oil companies have been lining politicians’ pockets for decades. My old company even had our own lobbyists. While ethanol has its pros and cons, the benefits aren’t all bunk.
 

65sohc

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Clean burning and good at lining politicians' pockets with money from the companies that make ethanol.
You make a good point. Let see. Which would I rather have? 91 octane@$3.30 a gal. or 105 octane@$2.20 a gal. Tough decision.
 

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65sohc

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You make a good point. Let see. Which would I rather have? 91 octane@$3.30 a gal. or 105 octane@$2.20 a gal. Tough decision.
Oh, and 30 more hp.
 

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Only non-ethanol I see around here is 87 non ethanol. If I want my premium I get the 10% fermented corn with it.

Stuff is bloody corrosive though. I pump this shit pure at work. My site is one of the spots the Salt Lake City Chevron refinery gets their ethanol from. Comes to us by railcar, I pump it into some tanker trucks, those trucks haul it to Chevron. I can't tell you how quick it eats up all my damn seals and stuff in my hoses. Can only imagine it doing that to all the gaskets and such in our cars too. I know, it's watered down 90% by the gas it's mixed with so I know handling it in its pure form I'm seeing some exaggerated results in my equipment. But knowing what 100% ethanol is capable of makes me cringe lol. I'd love to find a place that sells premium ethanol free. I can drive 45 minutes north of where I am to get some, but it isn't worth the trip to me.
 

bootlegger

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Only non-ethanol I see around here is 87 non ethanol. If I want my premium I get the 10% fermented corn with it.

Stuff is bloody corrosive though. I pump this shit pure at work. My site is one of the spots the Salt Lake City Chevron refinery gets their ethanol from. Comes to us by railcar, I pump it into some tanker trucks, those trucks haul it to Chevron. I can't tell you how quick it eats up all my damn seals and stuff in my hoses. Can only imagine it doing that to all the gaskets and such in our cars too. I know, it's watered down 90% by the gas it's mixed with so I know handling it in its pure form I'm seeing some exaggerated results in my equipment. But knowing what 100% ethanol is capable of makes me cringe lol. I'd love to find a place that sells premium ethanol free. I can drive 45 minutes north of where I am to get some, but it isn't worth the trip to me.
Alcohols are solvents, that is why it eats up seals. E10 won't hurt the seals on a modern vehicle. There are seals you could use which would be fine (even with E95), but it would cost a lot more to your company. I am guessing they decided it was cheaper to just regularly replace the cheaper seals. Gasoline will do the same thing if not using seal material made for it.
 

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Hack

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bootlegger

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Keep in mind that ethanol is by far more expensive to produce than gasoline and it's your tax dollars that are artificially keeping the price of ethanol down.


https://www.taxpayer.net/agriculture/updated-political-footprint-of-the-corn-ethanol-lobby/
Biased article is biased.

Besides, he mentioned 105 octane. The current infrastructure isn't set up to cheaply produce 100+ octane fuel. It is more than likely a wash between E85 and E0 105 oct, even without the tax breaks. Since the removal of tetraethyl lead, high octane E0 has greatly increased in cost. The cheapest way to do it is with some added mmt, but that is also regulate heavily.
 

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Hack

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Biased article is biased.

Besides, he mentioned 105 octane. The current infrastructure isn't set up to cheaply produce 100+ octane fuel. It is more than likely a wash between E85 and E0 105 oct, even without the tax breaks. Since the removal of tetraethyl lead, high octane E0 has greatly increased in cost. The cheapest way to do it is with some added mmt, but that is also regulate heavily.
You are definitely supplying the other side bias.. :cheers:

If market forces were behind ethanol I would have no objection to it at all. However, that is not the case. Political corruption is behind it.
 

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You are definitely supplying the other side bias.. :cheers:

If market forces were behind ethanol I would have no objection to it at all. However, that is not the case. Political corruption is behind it.
My bias is on the side of science, especially coming from the industry. As stated before, there are pros and cons to ethanol. We shouldn't make decisions solely based on how profitable a technology is.

Pro:
- Less carbon emissions, as well as a reduction in other GHGs
- Less reliance on foreign oil (last figure I saw from 2015 was significant)
- Cheap source of octane as a blend component
- Creates American jobs
- Growing and production costs are decreasing thanks to tech like GMO corn, while petro exploration and extraction costs continue to increase

Cons:
- Slight increase in ground level pollutants
- Can be more expensive than gasoline to produce (though this difference is offset more at higher octane levels)
- High solvency means more expensive seal material must be used
- Lower energy content than straight gasoline

The demonization of ethanol as a blend component is completely political. I am not part of the green party that thinks we should all be using 100% biofuels, but I know the value of having them as a option.
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