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Old 01-22-2018, 02:35 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Ohthatguy View Post
That's reality. 11.8@119.51 bone stock for a 2018 GT auto. Only the top dog Camaro does better.
Evan Smith’s run?
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:48 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by thehunterooo View Post
Evan Smith’s run?
Published Times:

2016 SS (Mk VI) Auto 12.21@114.93 Hot Rod Magazine pro driver

11.905@@117.69 (fastest stock time claimed on the fast list at camaro6.com for a 2016+ SS Auto from thousands of forum member passes, based on honor system re: mods, beating Hot Rod Magazine's professional driver by a whopping .3 seconds and 3 miles per hour.)

2018 Mustang GT Auto PP1 11.83@119.51 Hot Rod Magazine

(Keep in mind that once thousands of owner passes go down on 2018 Mustang GT autos, if they beat the Hot Rod Magazine staff times by the same margin, that's an 11.53@122.3 mph pass!)

2018 ZL1 1LE Package (Mk VI)
11.7 s @ 123.0

ZL1 (Mk VI)
11.5 s @ 125.0 mph

C7 Corvette Grand Sport Mag Times
12.0@116.6

C7 Magazine Times
12.2@119
12.1@117.8
11.86@120.29 (carsillustrated.com run)
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Last edited by Ohthatguy; 01-22-2018 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:20 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Ohthatguy View Post
Published Times:

2016 SS (Mk VI) Auto 12.21@114.93 Hot Rod Magazine pro driver

11.905@@117.69 (fastest stock time claimed on the fast list at camaro6.com for a 2016+ SS Auto from thousands of forum member passes, based on honor system re: mods, beating Hot Rod Magazine's professional driver by a whopping .3 seconds and 3 miles per hour.)

2018 Mustang GT Auto PP1 11.83@119.51 Hot Rod Magazine

(Keep in mind that once thousands of owner passes go down on 2018 Mustang GT autos, if they beat the Hot Rod Magazine staff times by the same margin, that's an 11.53@122.3 mph pass!)

2018 ZL1 1LE Package (Mk VI)
11.7 s @ 123.0

ZL1 (Mk VI)
11.5 s @ 125.0 mph
Yeah that was Evan Smith’s run. C6G proclaimed it was BS and that the run is fraudulent and does not count. That is supported by the Camaro owners on this fourm.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:39 AM   #304
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Yeah that was Evan Smith’s run. C6G proclaimed it was BS and that the run is fraudulent and does not count. That is supported by the Camaro owners on this fourm.
Well fortunately we don't get to just claim BS when some other brand's car is faster than we want it to be. They go into great detail about their process and numerous times and speeds they ran that day. The time stands but it will be eclipsed by other runs in auto '18+ GTs once thousands of passes have been made by owners and car mags.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:15 AM   #305
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The magazines are not pushing it as much as you think. If you look at the Car and Driver Lightning Lap, it is a bunch of editors driving the cars in shorts and open face helmets - which is not even allowed in the track days that I instruct at. The times that they are posting are a middle of the pack intermediate-advanced track day pace.

Randy obviously is talented, but even he is posting times in an open face helmet in a car full of cameras, that he drives for a few minutes prior to the hot lap. He is not at a race pace. So his times can be matched by an owner who is an advanced HPDE driver with racing experience that is super familiar with the car.

So, personally, I think my times would be better than the Car and Driver times, and probably no more than a sec or two behind Randy's time in the tracks that I know in my car that I have dialed in to my tastes.

I may be wrong, but that is what I think.
You aren't wrong. My first ever track day at the drag strip with my wife's 2007 WRX, I pulled a time equivalent to C&D. I know different conditions and whatnot, but I was inexperienced and learning. This can also be seen with the magazine 1/4 miles times of 12.6 sec in the 6spd 2018 GT, while Evan Smith managed a 12.2.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:22 AM   #306
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You aren't wrong. My first ever track day at the drag strip with my wife's 2007 WRX, I pulled a time equivalent to C&D. I know different conditions and whatnot, but I was inexperienced and learning. This can also be seen with the magazine 1/4 miles times of 12.6 sec in the 6spd 2018 GT, while Evan Smith managed a 12.2.
Most mag 1/4 times are not on prepped tracks. Evan Smith run was on a very prepped track. But again mag test likely represents most average drivers.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:43 AM   #307
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Most mag 1/4 times are not on prepped tracks. Evan Smith run was on a very prepped track. But again mag test likely represents most average drivers.
Rented* prepped track. Forgot about that one myself
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:45 AM   #308
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1LE and PP2 are not intended for the "general public". Why can't people get that in here?

These packages are there for the people who intend to take those cars to track day events.
Is that why the buy rate on the MY15-17 PP1 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% of all GT’s sold? You really are clues aren’t you?

I’m curious, does that mean that because the 1SS has similar equipment as the PP1, that it too is not intended for the “general public”? I guess that explains their terrible sales.

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Originally Posted by thehunterooo View Post
Yeah that was Evan Smith’s run. C6G proclaimed it was BS and that the run is fraudulent and does not count. That is supported by the Camaro owners on this fourm.
I remember hearing that they thought the swaybar and seats were removed to accomplish those times…as it was totally unbelievable.

Quote:
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Most mag 1/4 times are not on prepped tracks. Evan Smith run was on a very prepped track. But again mag test likely represents most average drivers.
Most mag times represent what some owners would be able to run on the street. The track is a completely different environment.

As soon as you take an auto on the track with VHT, it is extremely easy with newer cars to get very good ¼ mile times. Once owners ¼ mile times start rolling out, you will see a lot of low 12, high 11 second ¼ mile runs in cool spring air.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:47 AM   #309
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Drivers and tracks are such major variables especially with a manual that anything within a half second reported by magazine is a dead heat as far as I'm concerned and probably couldn't be taken advantage of by your average driver. Someone with damn near my setup ran 11s. I went to an event and couldn't match the stock times the magazines put out, So I won't be reporting that lol. Mph was decent though when I actually didn't miss a shift.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:43 AM   #310
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... How often do people push their car to the limits vs., say, looking out the window to see a traffic light? ...
That is no joke.

Here's a small compilation of what professional testers have said about the Camaro's ergonomics:

... you should probably pass on the $900 sunroof to seize precious millimeters of headroom
... the form-over-function exterior creates some ergonomic woes inside
... Hang an arm on the windowsill and your elbow rises to ear level
... The high trunklid and low roofline squeeze the view out the back into a sliver
... Wide B-pillars and the rising beltline render the rear quarter-windows useless
... When the feds make blind-spot monitoring mandatory in the coming years, you’ll have this car to thank
... There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...maro-ss-page-3

... Still can’t see out of the thing, hanging your arm out the window can cause hyperextension of your shoulder
... its narrow slits for side windows, fat C-pillar, and short rear glass—has, indeed, done nothing to improve the outward visibility in this new car. It is abysmal
... The tanklike construction also prevents much light from entering the cabin
... every drive in the Camaro feel like an adventure in spelunking
... Other ergonomic misfires include center HVAC vents mounted so low in the center stack that they dispense air directly onto your shifting hand
... the world’s most useless door pockets
... an infotainment screen canted curiously down toward the floor

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review

... the 2016 has about as much glass as does the Unabomber’s supermax cell
... GM design seems obsessed with exploring how small it can make windows
... Blinkered visibility (again)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al-test-review

... thick slab sides and the bunkerlike greenhouse
... Visibility remains compromised
... the parcel shelf that rises from the base of the rear window to meet the rear backrest—feel like jokes taken a step too far.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

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Well, I guess you can lurk a little longer
haha!

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Originally Posted by thill444 View Post
I don't hate Camaros I just call it like I see it. Performance, while important, is not the be all end all to me ...
The reason I've been buying V8 Mustangs from 1982 through today is due to their combination of great performance, upright seating position, and outward visibility.

And I don't "hate" Camaro's either, they just don't offer everything I'm looking for in a car. That's separate from the owners themselves, of which some are great people.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:49 AM   #311
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^ That was a hilarious read. "Jokes taken a step too far" Ha ha ha ha!!
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:53 AM   #312
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I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:06 AM   #313
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I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
The biggest gap closer there is the wide tires. The widebody Hellcat that runs 305's cut some time off of what the standard hellcat on 275's was running on a course with turns (I.E. not a 1/4 mile track situation).
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:07 AM   #314
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What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
Significantly wider and grippier tires will make a HUGE difference in lap times. As good as the MP4S tires are, they are just a great street tire and nothing more.

Comparing 255/275 MP4S tires to square 305 Cup 2 tires is night and day difference...hose are borderline track only tires. Just that change alone can knock a few seconds of a lap time in the right hands.

I can see better suspension tuning and those tires putting a 3 second gap on the PP1.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:16 AM   #315
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What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
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