MotoIQ TESTED: Ford Power Packs 1-3

Eritas · Oct 31, 2017

EFI said:
Nicely written as always by the MotoIQ guys, and very informative.

I'm personally not convinced the PP3 is faster, if any, than the PP2 unless you are revving it to the moon well over 7500rpm. To me, the increase in power from 6500-7500 is pretty much offset by an equal loss is power from 5500-6500 when the upshift occurs. So unless you're able to keep it above 6500rpm the entire time (which is hard to do since a 7500rpm shift drops you to 5200rpm in 2-3 for example) you're going to experience some loss in power which I'm not sure is made up up top.

Hmm. You either:

-didn't read the whole thing
-don't understand the torque thrust analysis of the PP2 vs PP3
-just don't believe in the analysis and mathematical proof
-or are in denial because it's something potentially better than something you currently run (you're biased because you bought PP2 so won't accept that there is something better).

BmacIL · Oct 31, 2017

millhouse said:
Total area under the curve doesn’t matter in regards to full on acceleration. The only thing that matters here (for full on acceleration) is the area under the curve from red-line to where the next gear engages, where PP3 is clearly superior.

Yes, outside of first gear, where the PP2 would be stronger.

millhouse · Oct 31, 2017

BmacIL said:
Yes, outside of first gear, where the PP2 would be stronger.

No argument with that. :thumbsup:

BmacIL · Oct 31, 2017

millhouse said:
No argument with that.

Indeed, although I'm usually traction-limited there anyway, even with 3.31s and being NA :lol:

EFI · Oct 31, 2017

Hmm. You either:

-didn't read the whole thing
-don't understand the torque thrust analysis of the PP2 vs PP3
-just don't believe in the analysis and mathematical proof
-or are in denial because it's something potentially better than something you currently run (you're biased because you bought PP2 so won't accept that there is something better).

Oh I understand the "mathematical analysis" of this, but unfortunately we don't race on Excel spreadsheets or dynos. We race on the streets, tracks and strips.

Which is why I said I'm not sold yet on the performance advantage of the PP3 until I see a solid side by side comparison of the two setups, not just on paper. It's a great analysis don't get me wrong, and it "shows" that the PP3 can be faster...but we haven't had any real world back to back comparisons.

millhouse · Oct 31, 2017

BmacIL said:
Indeed, although I'm usually traction-limited there anyway, even with 3.31s and being NA :lol:

Haha, with 3.73's first is stupid short....but I still love it. Could totally use that extra 500 RPM. :cheers:

Eritas · Oct 31, 2017

BmacIL said:
Indeed, although I'm usually traction-limited there anyway, even with 3.31s and being NA :lol:

Then that makes PP2's 1st gear advantage irrelevant. = Advantage PP3!

millhouse · Oct 31, 2017

EFI said:
Oh I understand the "mathematical analysis" of this, but unfortunately we don't race on Excel spreadsheets. We race on the streets, tracks and strips.

Which is why I said I'm not sold yet on the performance advantage of the PP3 until I see a solid side by side comparison of the two setups, not just on paper.

There is nothing to be sold about. For the usable racing powerband, the PP3 will hands down be quicker as it offers far more area under the curve. This isn’t theory here.

For part throttle and short shifting driving, the PP2 could be quicker for those that don’t like pushing the RPMs. When I want to go faster, I personally chose to downshift and fully press the throttle to the floor….and shift at 7000 RPM.

If however you rarely push your car to redline, for sure PP2 is a great option….I have no argument there.

BmacIL · Oct 31, 2017

Eritas said:
Then that makes PP2's 1st gear advantage irrelevant. = Advantage PP3!

Well, on street tires, yes. If you put on radials, the PP2 would definitely have a better 60 ft and would considerably close up the 1/4 mile gap to an otherwise equal PP3 car. The PP3 would definitely trap higher and should have a quicker ET as well.

On the road course: toss-up, depending on the track. A track with a lot of shifting (OR where you could stay above 5,500 rpm a lot) would give the PP3 an advantage.

millhouse · Oct 31, 2017

BmacIL said:
Well, on street tires, yes. If you put on radials, the PP2 would definitely have a better 60 ft and would considerably close up the 1/4 mile gap to an otherwise equal PP3 car. The PP3 would definitely trap higher and should have a quicker ET as well.

On the road course: toss-up, depending on the track. A track with a lot of shifting would give the PP3 an advantage.

I don't think 60’s would vary that much. Where the PP3 loses on torque down low, you can easily just rev it slightly higher to gain more torque with some of that rotational energy stored in the flywheel. The extra RPM is also going to allow the first shift to last just that little bit longer. Keeping the RPMs higher is going to be key though for sure.

BmacIL · Oct 31, 2017

millhouse said:
I don't think 60’s would vary that much. Where the PP3 loses on torque down low, you can easily just rev it slightly higher to gain more torque with some of that rotational energy stored in the flywheel. The extra RPM is also going to allow the first shift to last just that little bit longer. Keeping the RPMs higher is going to be key though for sure.

You'll still be launching in the meat of the area where the PP2 has a significant advantage. If you can put it down to the ground, the PP2 will definitely win that every time, but would be reeled in after the first shift.

Eritas · Oct 31, 2017

Agreed. Slip the clutch and keep the revs higher. Sure PP2 will be quicker if you idle off the line, but I don't think that's the fastest way to launch a car anyway... Advantage PP3.

On a road course you shift at redline all the time. Advantage PP3.

millhouse · Oct 31, 2017

BmacIL said:
You'll still be launching in the meat of the area where the PP2 has a significant advantage. If you can put it down to the ground, the PP2 will definitely win that every time, but would be reeled in after the first shift.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be quicker off the line...but by only the smallest amount. In other-words, easily overcome by the extra power and RPM of the PP3.

Bluemustang · Oct 31, 2017

For me the main takeaway is how the article says that the PP3 changes the feel of the car and gives off an aura of the GT350. Flatter power curve. I do want the additional power but the change in the feel of the car IMO would be more enjoyable for me. I wanna Rev this sob out, which IMO is the beauty of this engine. Even if I'm not racing.

EFI · Oct 31, 2017

I'm going to put a link of this thread under the Wikipedia article of "bench racing", this is the very definition of that phrase :clap2:

Although I'll have to start a new sub-article titled "Excel racing", I don't think there's any info on that so this is groundbreaking theory. Maybe we can even get an official 1/4 mile thread in the racing section for the fastest Excel cars.

MotoIQ TESTED: Ford Power Packs 1-3

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