What lap time matters: Journalist, 3rd party Pro, or Factory?

What lap time do you care about?

-Amateur journalists because they best represent what is attainable at the track. But it's not the true capability of the car.

-Professionals like Randy Pobst who are usually unbiased, but based on his own comments, does not get much time in the car to learn it, leaving time on the table.

-Factory claims. They know the car the best, what tire pressures are the best, and their development / pro drivers have more time in the car, have more tires to set the best lap possible. But maybe they cheat the tires, setup, and car and can't be trusted.

The ones I get... who the hell cares? They aren't driving my car for me when I am on the roads or a track.

wireeater said:

The ones I get... who the hell cares? They aren't driving my car for me when I am on the roads or a track.

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I was literally thinking that before I even got in the thread.

Pro Driver on the same track is a nice indicator only, as conditions vary. The most important is their comments relative to how attainable quick laptimes are for the novice or intermediate experience driver (this is one of the reason Randy and many others love the GT350R, for instance).

Factory claims are also good because they're actually program targets. '15 GT PP 1 sec faster than Boss 302. '18 GT PP2 3.5 seconds faster than PP1. Both of these at Ford 'Michigan Proving Grounds West' (Grattan).

wireeater said:

The ones I get... who the hell cares? They aren't driving my car for me when I am on the roads or a track.

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So much this.





OP add another option for "MINE".

Actually, none of it matters because 95% of buyers just drive these in regular traffic. The other 5% are the track enthusiasts.

Realistically it seems people only care about the times that make their car look good, all others are discounted for some reason. ;)

They are all interesting metrics. Not very important though.

I actually think the least important are manufacturer times just because so many of them have fudged the numbers in the past you can't believe them when they do show it.

To be honest though, for most people it all boils down to....

I don't care about times much at all.

I do care about how the car feels when driven hard. I therefore put most weight in the professional driver's opinions about the car. Really like that MT uses Randy Pobst consistently, since he has good explanations about what he likes and what he feels, and will often admit that even though a car isn't to his liking, it still may be a great car.

If I was able to test drive my potential purchases at Laguna Seca, I wouldn't care about those opinions so much, but I haven't found a dealership that allows that yet, so for now I will still put weight in what the pros say.

However, I tend to buy based mostly on passion. That is: how a car makes me feel when I look at it, sit in it, fire it up, etc. Even though I care what the pros say about a vehicle, I will often ignore the bad stuff if I already am in love with the car, and use only the good to rationalize a purchase.

For example, I love my 350Z even though it never really was known to be a great car. Always seemed to lose comparisions to the S2000 or other cars of the time. I love the S2K, but still always preferred the Z due to its heritage, clean look, more torquey engine, hardtop, etc, and still haven't been able to bring myself to sell it.

-T

I voted for the 3rd party pro. Especially Randy Pobst because he's so consistent. Here's an oldie-but-goodie MT article comparing the 2011 Mustang GT against a BMW M3. Noteworthy here:

1. Randy is about 4 seconds faster than the writer Ed Loh around Willow Springs in each car. The difference, according to someone who analyzed the results, was "the pro don't pucker."

2. Randy's lap times were within .1 second with the BMW coming out on top, so the cars were close to equal in the hands of a pro.

3. The writer was .5 seconds quicker in the Mustang, so maybe the Mustang is faster in the hands of an amateur.

This is one example showing that lap times by magazine editors are probably closer to what amateurs can expect. Not many folks can drive like Pobst.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m3/2011/2011-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2011-bmw-m3-comparison/

Austinj427 said:

They are all interesting metrics. Not very important though.

I actually think the least important are manufacturer times just because so many of them have fudged the numbers in the past you can't believe them when they do show it.

To be honest though, for most people it all boils down to....

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And 0-60 & 1/4 mile times matter? They have the same problems but everyone lives and dies by those stats.

bluebeastsrt said:

Im only interested in numbers I can produce. Everything else is just stats for the magazine racers.

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This. Why do you care about how well (or poorly) someone else can drive your car? Maybe if a magazine did some tests using middle-aged drivers who are not as good as they think they are.

Edit: On second thought, it is always nice to have a calibrated yardstick. So for that purpose I would go with the 3rd party pro. Reviews are reviews and most of us don't have the resources to do a real test of all the cars we might be shopping for, so some objective comparison is always nice.

Laptimes don’t really matter because it’s what YOU as the driver can do.

New Ford GT recently broke the VIR record, driven by Billy Johnson, 2:38.62 and he had a little left in the run but saved the tires for the C&D lightning lap (driven by a different driver).
Point is after all the bitching about performance numbers lap times, etc people still complain about something. V6, ford “cheating” at lemans, car weighing 300lbs more than ford stated. Lol, people bitching and crying about a car they will never get.

Im a realistic hardass on such questions. I love reading reviews by pure pros such as Randy P. and that of "regular" journalists. One tells me the max of a car i will never see while the other shows what to expect in reality driving.

Unless ive seen you on TV (Nascar, leMans, Continential Cup etc) then the car's ability is above you - better then you. Stop buying mods that in really dont do much and invest the money and time in a high quailty driving school and seat time.

The number of guys buying a 400hp car and then thinking they need "mods" on day 1 to get better performance really need driving school and mental health therapy. These are street cars folks. The percentage of Mustang, Camaro, Corvette owners who really see serious roadtrack time....1-2% at best.

Go to early GT350 forum posts... guys had never driven a stick, never been on a road course but think they may do so 2-3 times a year (fantasy) and they just have to have a 350 or 350R. Just a bunch of mental masterbation by posers. And look at the number of GT350 owners now after a year jumping ship looking at the upcoming GT500 ignoring the fact the GT350 already exceeds their ability as a driver. A never ending story.

Paul Newman was a fantastic amateur driver. He had the miney to drive whatever he wanted. He started oitbin a Datson.