Will there be a GT500R version?

Lightning Lap is a joke. Conducted by a bunch of amateurs. No way to draw any meaningful comparisons.

Eritas said:

Lightning Lap is a joke. Conducted by a bunch of amateurs. No way to draw any meaningful comparisons.

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And your a pro? seriously though do you track cars? But how about MT and Randy. Less then 1/2 second slower.


http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...l1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/

ttime500 said:

And your a pro? seriously though do you track cars? But how about MT and Randy. Less then 1/2 second slower.


http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...l1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/

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MT is more valid. LL is a joke. What I struggle with for that MT test is how does the lighter 350R with more aero, a wider and better tire, and a better weight distribution go through corners slower than the supercharged ZL1 on smaller tires? Does not make sense to me.

Yes I've tracked my M3 and my Mustang quite a bit. If someone buying me lunch to drive their car and show them the line defines me as a pro, then, sure, haha.

Eritas said:

MT is more valid. LL is a joke. What I struggle with for that MT test is how does the lighter 350R with more aero, a wider and better tire, and a better weight distribution go through corners slower than the supercharged ZL1 on smaller tires? Does not make sense to me.

Yes I've tracked my M3 and my Mustang quite a bit. If someone buying me lunch to drive their car and show them the line defines me as a pro, then, sure, haha.

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Ya, I watched some of the LL laps and they aren’t the greatest, there lines a sloppy but from my experience (still limited) it’s a lot easier to watch the video and criticize then to be in the drivers seat pushing the limit. Is the 350R tires wider? I thought ZL1 would be? Without diving into it my guess would be suspension setup.

ttime500 said:

Ya, I watched some of the LL laps and they aren’t the greatest, there lines a sloppy but from my experience (still limited) it’s a lot easier to watch the video and criticize then to be in the drivers seat pushing the limit. Is the 350R tires wider? I thought ZL1 would be? Without diving into it my guess would be suspension setup.

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LL uses magazine editors. Amateurs. At least MT uses a pro, but we're not talking about a physics defying GTR. I don't see how suspension could overcome aero, wider and better tires, more weight and a worse weight distribution. :shrug:

They could have ran the ZL1 in the morning and the 350R in the afternoon when the track was hotter and slower. Who knows, but it raises a red flag when the ZL1 out corners the 350R.

Eritas said:

LL uses magazine editors. Amateurs. At least MT uses a pro, but we're not talking about a physics defying GTR. I don't see how suspension could overcome aero, wider and better tires, more weight and a worse weight distribution. :shrug:

They could have ran the ZL1 in the morning and the 350R in the afternoon when the track was hotter and slower. Who knows, but it raises a red flag when the ZL1 out corners the 350R.

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Track conditions could definitely be a factor, the corner speeds aren’t huge differences. I was thinking possibly the ZL1 was able to get back on throttle a hair earlier indicating a higher speed, doesn’t mean better feel or balance though.

ttime500 said:

Track conditions could definitely be a factor, the corner speeds aren’t huge differences. I was thinking possibly the ZL1 was able to get back on throttle a hair earlier indicating a higher speed, doesn’t mean better feel or balance though.

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They were huge with the 350R being 4.9mph slower in Turn 1, 4.4mph slower in Turn 5, & 3.2mph slower in turn 8. If they were even the same, the 350 would have won. I would guess the 350R should have been faster through all of these corners which would have gave it a pretty good margin.

At this point, I am waiting on the release. Speculation is futile.

Darkane said:

Also the ZL1 1LE is fucking fast, Ford might not be able to match it. I’d also say, they couldn’t match it AT ALL with comparable hp. The reason the 500R (if it exists) will win is because of the 50-150 more hp.

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The ZL1 1LE has such a stiff ride that I don't think most here want that matched. Kind of like the last Z/28 sacrificing everyday drivability for a slightly quicker magazine time. Chevy only seems to be able to come up with bigger hammer type of solutions lately.

I would assume that most people here would prefer to have a car that's fun to drive and livable on the street over magazine numbers. The GT350 and GT350R also had great styling with aero components that fit the car and looked beautiful, versus some great big aftermarket looking wing and canards. Here's to hoping the styling on the GT500 is just as amazing and functional as that of the GT350.

A big thing people like Randy and others talk about are the intangibles. If you have more confidence in a car going into a corner, I.e in the brakes or even cornering grip. That 1.5 2 mph corner speed can make a huge difference.. It's not all about numbers. I still think the 350(r) does pretty well against a car with 120+ hp and pretty confident this 500 is going to more than hold if not outright perform the competition. They seems to have their ducks in a row lately when it comes to Ford performance.

JL said:

A big thing people like Randy and others talk about are the intangibles. If you have more confidence in a car going into a corner, I.e in the brakes or even cornering grip. That 1.5 2 mph corner speed can make a huge difference.. It's not all about numbers. I still think the 350(r) does pretty well against a car with 120+ hp and pretty confident this 500 is going to more than hold if not outright perform the competition. They seems to have their ducks in a row lately when it comes to Ford performance.

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Then why was the 350R 4.4mph slower (almost 3X your "huge difference") than the ZL1?

I agree with you but I just think theres something not right about that MT test. I don't see how a ZL1 would out corner a 350R. I've tracked a 350R and it was amazing. I have not driven a ZL1 but on paper it doesn't seem like it could corner as well.

Eritas said:

Then why was the 350R 4.4mph slower (almost 3X your "huge difference") than the ZL1?

I agree with you but I just think theres something not right about that MT test. I don't see how a ZL1 would out corner a 350R. I've tracked a 350R and it was amazing. I have not driven a ZL1 but on paper it doesn't seem like it could corner as well.

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Hint: they put the stripe on the straight for a reason..

Eritas said:

They were huge with the 350R being 4.9mph slower in Turn 1, 4.4mph slower in Turn 5, & 3.2mph slower in turn 8. If they were even the same, the 350 would have won. I would guess the 350R should have been faster through all of these corners which would have gave it a pretty good margin.

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Watch the video and tell me what you think? I think track conditions may have changed a bit for one. But when I watch the video I think the ZL1 is able to carry a higher speed in to some of the corners. I think the chart is a bit deceptive. When I watch the video it sure appears the 350R is carrying as much or more speed through corners. I'm surprised that the zl1 is faster in the tighter turns as opposed to the wide ones. Makes me think track conditions.

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Eritas said:

Then why was the 350R 4.4mph slower (almost 3X your "huge difference") than the ZL1?

I agree with you but I just think theres something not right about that MT test. I don't see how a ZL1 would out corner a 350R. I've tracked a 350R and it was amazing. I have not driven a ZL1 but on paper it doesn't seem like it could corner as well.

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Don't forget the ZL1 has an E-LSD which can vector torque and tune out a lot of inherent understeer, as well as put power down better than a traditional LSD. I agree it still shouldn't be faster than a GT350R through corners though, but it helps close the gap.

ttime500 said:

Watch the video and tell me what you think? I think track conditions may have changed a bit for one. But when I watch the video I think the ZL1 is able to carry a higher speed in to some of the corners. I think the chart is a bit deceptive. When I watch the video it sure appears the 350R is carrying as much or more speed through corners. I'm surprised that the zl1 is faster in the tighter turns as opposed to the wide ones. Makes me think track conditions.

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4mph difference in a corner is A LOT in terms of lap time, but it's u likely you'll see a visual difference from a video.

Stuntman said:

Don't forget the ZL1 has an E-LSD which can vector torque and tune out a lot of inherent understeer, as well as put power down better than a traditional LSD. I agree it still shouldn't be faster than a GT350R through corners though, but it helps close the gap.


4mph difference in a corner is A LOT in terms of lap time, but it's u likely you'll see a visual difference from a video.

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A 4 mph difference is a lot if you can carry the difference all the way through the turn. The ZL1 has a higher speed but it has to brake down to a lower speed than in the 350R. I would bet the average speed from turn in to exit is about the same.