0w40?

ansibe · Apr 15, 2017

jasonstang said:
It depends on if the crank bearing is designed for such thick oil or not. If you are using too thick of oil for the crank bearing gap, the heat can't be taken away as fast as a thinner oil, you can create more problem. The Boss has a thick oil bearing design so it will be fine.

This simple statement shows a great depth of knowledge. Heat is the enemy, and the point of any lubricant is to reduce heat.

This is why I come to this forum for advice.

Ctease · Apr 15, 2017

Normal- 5w-20
Cold weather- 0w-20
Performance- 0/5w-20/30/40 depending; 30/40/50 if boosted.

Try it out 0w-40. But I suspect cold start oil pressure wil be similar to your current 5w-20. But you're using the right logic. 30 or 40 is nice, will give less blow-by under high load/performance driving.

NoVaGT · Apr 15, 2017

Ctease said:
Normal- 5w-20
Cold weather- 0w-20
Performance- 0/5w-20/30/40 depending; 30/40/50 if boosted.

Try it out 0w-40. But I suspect cold start oil pressure wil be similar to your current 5w-20. But you're using the right logic. 30 or 40 is nice, will give less blow-by under high load/performance driving.

People haven't changed oil weight due to temps/weather since the 1980s, and it's completely un-necessary. And as jasonstang enlightened us, it's about the design of the engine.

Ctease · Apr 15, 2017

NoVaGT said:
People haven't changed oil weight due to temps/weather since the 1980s, and it's completely un-necessary. And as jasonstang enlightened us, it's about the design of the engine.

Yup.
In accordance with Ford manual:
Normal 5w-20
Cold Weather 0w-20

Ctease · Apr 15, 2017

http://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/product/oil/super_oil/index.html

Yup engine design

ansibe · Apr 15, 2017

Ctease said:
Yup engine design

Not sure where the curves come from, but it's interesting that 0w40 is more viscous than 5w20 for the whole range.

Firepath · Apr 15, 2017

TomcatDriver said:
0-40 oil performs as 0 viscosity oil cold, and 40 viscosity oil "hot". All oils are thinner hot and thicker cold. A single weight oil is a more or less straight line from it's cold viscosity to hot viscosity. A multi-weight is like drawing a line from the left (cold) side of the "0" graph to the right (hot) side of the "40" graph. So a 0-40 oil is going to be thin (like 0 weight) when cold, and it's going to be thinner hot, but not as thin as 0 (which would be like water hot). It's going to have the viscosity of hot 40 (which is thinner than cold 0). I would go on some oil forums and discuss there. I doubt that 0W40 would hurt anything as 5-30 overlaps the range. The only real difference is really hot, heavy load you are going to have a little higher viscosity.

I'm doing a bad job of explaining that. Go to some oil forums.

Absent significant experimental research I would stick with recommended 5W30 API SN. I would go synthetic in any case.

Yep, I'd say if 5W30 is standard and you have too much (you need to work out what is too much) oil pressure when cold and not enough when hot then 0W40 is going to be better suited.

TomcatDriver · Apr 15, 2017

Firepath said:
Yep, I'd say if 5W30 is standard and you have too much (you need to work out what is too much) oil pressure when cold and not enough when hot then 0W40 is going to be better suited.

I was wrong, 5W20 is recommended for the 5.0, 5w30 is recommended for EB. This is a pretty complicated subject and goes far beyond just the numerical viscosity ratings. All the little extra numbers and letters that are in the fine print on the back of your oil bottle matter also. Most manufactures have gone from 5w30 to 5w20 mostly to help meet CAFE standards. If you go back and look at the history there are engines that went from 5w30 to 5w20 with the exact same engine just a different model year. In some cases manufactures will recommend different weight oils depending on the country. Oil A 0w40 and oil B 5w30 may offer nearly identical viscosity across normal operating conditions.

In any case, if the OP is racing and probably blowing any warranty anyway, going to a higher weight may be beneficial as it will be maintain viscosity at higher temperatures and loads.

Ctease · Apr 15, 2017

ansibe said:
Not sure where the curves come from, but it's interesting that 0w40 is more viscous than 5w20 for the whole range.

Yes.
Data points provided by manufacture.
0w-40 @40*c = 70.8; 100*c = 12.9
5w-20 @40*c = 49.8; 100*c = 8.9

Curve is a basic kinematic viscosity parabolic of multi-grade oils measured in "cSt" or centistokes. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt.

EFI · Apr 15, 2017

NoVaGT said:
Coyotes have run 5W-20 since their introduction. It what they were designed around.

So if they were designed for 5w20, why can they run 5w50 when under extreme use and it's recommended by the manufacturer itself?

The engine calls for 5W-20 and that's what I would use. Don't try and outsmart the engineers that designed it.

You have to remember that said engineers aren't exactly given free reign on designing an engine as stout as they want. They have to adhere to many other things besides durability...so that 5w20 oil that the engine calls for isn't necessarily because that's the best viscosity for reliability. It's the bare minimum that will keep the engine alive for 60k miles under light conditions. If you want bare minimum protection while you drive to the grocery store and back then that oil is perfectly fine for you. If you want to take the engine beyond that and what was designed by the engineers, you have to take protection beyond that also.

BmacIL · Apr 15, 2017

EFI said:
So if they were designed for 5w20, why can they run 5w50 when under extreme use and it's recommended by the manufacturer itself?

You have to remember that said engineers aren't exactly given free reign on designing an engine as stout as they want. They have to adhere to many other things besides durability...so that 5w20 oil that the engine calls for isn't necessarily because that's the best viscosity for reliability. It's the bare minimum that will keep the engine alive for 60k miles under light conditions. If you want bare minimum protection while you drive to the grocery store and back then that oil is perfectly fine for you. If you want to take the engine beyond that and what was designed by the engineers, you have to take protection beyond that also.

I'd suggest no one listen closely to this fella. You clearly have been misinformed of how powertrain product development works, particularly at Ford. Durability requirements are first, then fuel economy and cost. This includes track driving and severe duty driving of other sorts (high speed in very high ambient, stop go in high ambient as well as similar in very cold temps). They validate to easily hit 150,000 miles with the specified oil, knowing a certain percentage of time is severe duty/track. Powertrain warranty does not equal design life. It does for many of the German brands, but not this one.

EFI · Apr 15, 2017

I'd suggest no one listen to this fella. You clearly have no clue how powertrain product development works, particularly at Ford.

I assume you work directly for Ford in the powertrain department right?

And if that's the case, then why did Ford themselves recommend 5w50 oil for track use on the 11-14 Mustangs when their synthetic blend 5w20 met all the durability requirements as you just mentioned?

Chameleon · Apr 15, 2017

No. Use what Ford says.

BmacIL · Apr 15, 2017

EFI said:
I assume you work directly for Ford in the powertrain department right?

And if that's the case, then why did Ford themselves recommend 5w50 oil for track use on the 11-14 Mustangs when their synthetic blend 5w20 met all the durability requirements as you just mentioned?

Dedicated track use...that is a lot more than what is factored into the durability cycles on the dyno and in vehicle. The engine isn't going to disintegrate or suffer major issues doing a track day on 5W20. Should you go to it on fresh oil? Absolutely. The additives that allow the oil to continue to lubricate effectively at high temperatures are at their best. If it's a track day car and you're doing a bunch per year and very little street driving, it makes sense to go to a heavier oil like 5W50. It's also generally a good assumption that anyone tracking the car that frequently is probably pretty skilled and will put more heat into the oil than the guy who does it very occasionally, thus requiring a oil that maintains higher viscosity better.

Used to work in that department. Still in the industry but doing other things now.

EFI · Apr 15, 2017

Dedicated track use...that is a lot more than what is factored into the durability cycles on the dyno and in vehicle.

And that's exactly what I had said before. Ford durability testing does not take into account that type of abuse, so when exceeding factory designed operation (eg extended track use) you should then also increase its protection.

0w40?

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