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MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

HISSMAN

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^ That was a hilarious read. "Jokes taken a step too far" Ha ha ha ha!!
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wireeater

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I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
 

Ohthatguy

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I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
The biggest gap closer there is the wide tires. The widebody Hellcat that runs 305's cut some time off of what the standard hellcat on 275's was running on a course with turns (I.E. not a 1/4 mile track situation).
 

EFI

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What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
Significantly wider and grippier tires will make a HUGE difference in lap times. As good as the MP4S tires are, they are just a great street tire and nothing more.

Comparing 255/275 MP4S tires to square 305 Cup 2 tires is night and day difference...hose are borderline track only tires. Just that change alone can knock a few seconds of a lap time in the right hands.

I can see better suspension tuning and those tires putting a 3 second gap on the PP1.
 

wireeater

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What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
 

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Ohthatguy

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What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
Either the 1LE or PP2 may emerge as a slightly better performer than the other but that shouldn't matter too much to anybody who hasn't attached their sense of self worth to their preferred brand. Two great performers. Pick your poison.

I love that Camaros perform so well. Nothing but respect. But for a couple of reasons unrelated to their track performance, they just never make my shortlist when it's time to get a new car.
 

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What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
I don't think anyone on here is saying that the 1LE is not the better performer stock for stock, even against the PP2. What we're saying is that the PP2 should close if not match the gap between the 1LE and current PP1.

And yes, the F1 tires are not as good as the Cup 2s, but not by much. And of course you can play that game eg. if this car had this also then it would be much better. Mustang owners can say well if our cars had 6.2 liters of displacement it would be game over in a straight line.

Point is, you run what you have and don't make excuses. In the end, the PP2 is a much closer competitor to the 1LE than the PP1, but as before just about everyone agrees that the 1LE stock for stock is the better performer overall.
 

nastang87xx

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What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
The Eagle F1 has come a long way. Version 1? Yes, very meh. Version 3? Look out...
 

likeaboss

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It's pretty sad that you can't at least match the performance of your competitor's couple year old model with your latest. Even more so since the price advantage isn't there over the Camaro like the 15-17 models.

Performance:
Mustang GT = Camaro SS
Mustang GT PP1 = Camaro SS 1LE
Mustang GT PP2 > Camaro SS 1LE....oops we carried over the GT350 for 2018 so scratch all that :tsk:

By carrying over the GT350 Ford pretty much capped performance of the GT. You think GM is just going to leave things alone performance wise with their 2019 Camaro refresh?
 

millhouse

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It's pretty sad that you can't at least match the performance of your competitor's couple year old model with your latest.

Performance:
Mustang GT = Camaro SS
Mustang GT PP1 = Camaro SS 1LE
Mustang GT PP2 > Camaro SS 1LE....oops we carried over the GT350 for 2018 so scratch all that :tsk:
Except the Mustang GT doesn't match up with the camaro SS. Yes, both are the base models, but GT comes fairly stripped down and only has narrow all season tires by default. The SS comes much more optioned and is only available with wider summer tires.

Word on the street is, GM is looking to offer a V8 camaro optioned similarly to the GT to bump up sales.
 

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likeaboss

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Except the Mustang GT doesn't match up with the camaro SS. Yes, both are the base models, but GT comes fairly stripped down and only has narrow all season tires by default. The SS comes much more optioned and is only available with wider summer tires.

Word on the street is, GM is looking to offer a V8 camaro optioned similarly to the GT to bump up sales.
Ok, so swap the Mustang GT for Mustang GT Premium...
 

16 GT MM/Auto

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I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
Bottom line is no one really knows until PP2 is actually tested.

Depends on how well all the changes work together, but it looks pretty impressive:

  • former aerodynamics specialist at NASA, Jonathan Gesek, now works for Ford and developed the front splitter and rear spoiler
  • splitter works, providing 24 pounds of downforce at 80 mph
  • supervisor of vehicle dynamics development, Jamie Cullen, made sure PP2 delivered extremely responsive steering/braking/handling
  • Mr. Cullen stated PP2 “never gives up grip”
  • lowered 1/2 inch (that always helps)
  • 1.5 inch wider tires (that's big)
  • 67 percent stiffer rear stabilizer bar over PP1
  • 12 percent stiffer front stabilizer bar over PP1
  • 20 percent stiffer front springs over PP1
  • 13 percent stiffer rear springs over PP1
 

millhouse

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Ok, so swap the Mustang GT for Mustang GT Premium...
You're not getting it, the stock SS has additional coolers and wider, stickier summer tires than the GT. The PP1 suspension and tires line it directly up with the 1SS. Chevy doesn't have a car that currently compares to a base or even premium GT.
 

likeaboss

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You're not getting it, the stock SS has additional coolers and wider, stickier summer tires than the GT. The PP1 suspension and tires line it directly up with the 1SS. Chevy doesn't have a car that currently compares to a base or even premium GT.
No I get it. My point is why can Ford not offer the same level of performance at the same price point?

Base Mustang GT no options $35,995
Camaro 1SS no options $37,995
Mustang GT Premium no options $39,995

Neither Mustang offers the same level of performance as the Camaro 1SS. It's just disappointing Ford can't offer a refreshed Mustang that can at least equal the performance of a three year old Camaro.
 
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millhouse

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No I get it. My point is why can Ford not offer the same level of performance at the same price point?
Because people buy the mustang regardless. It's the reason they slowly upped the price of the performance pack from 15-17 without any actual changes in the package.
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