'16 Camaro Reviews are starting to hit the sites.

[thePill]

is reffering to yourself in the third person in almost every post a sign of arrogance then? .
you remind me of the old decrepit grandpa yelling at people for their opinions and to "stay off the pills lawn"

No, I, thePill's operator is responsible for very little of the information thePill provides. It should be a dead give away that I am giving credit while not mentioning who I get it from... If I even knew that anyway...

For the love of Christ

Your
You're

What didn't you understand about the previous explaination?

It is "your" and only "your"...


You figure you had a shot of gettin' at least one thing correct :lol:

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[Herr_Poopschitz]

Pill, I do wish you'd enlighten us as how exactly engineering determines where lightening holes go, since your contention is that their use is 'ill advised'.

Or address my comments that I shared about the subject...I'm all ears.

Some technical information would be helpful to this thread. Much of this back and forth could be done via PM.

 

[thePill]

Pill, I do wish you'd enlighten us as how exactly engineering determines where lightening holes go, since your contention is that their use is 'ill advised'.

Or address my comments that I shared about the subject...I'm all ears.

Some technical information would be helpful to this thread. Much of this back and forth could be done via PM.

Let's do an experiment...


Take a rigid structure and begin drilling random holes in it to reduce weight... and try to charge me $40,000 for it :lol:


Every single angle, alignment hole, brace (integrated or not) and work hardened area is ENGINEERED.

Even GM isn't going to risk NOT engineering these in the correct area.

Just think, you get into a small accident and every one of those holes are compresses a fraction of a millimeter...


...it's totaled and will need to be Chief'd for an R title...

 

[thePill]

Pill, I do wish you'd enlighten us as how exactly engineering determines where lightening holes go, since your contention is that their use is 'ill advised'.

Or address my comments that I shared about the subject...I'm all ears.

Some technical information would be helpful to this thread. Much of this back and forth could be done via PM.

You do understand this right?

The whole structural alignment is based on...


...wait for it...



...ALIGNMENT HOLES!!!!


Yes, these are the seemingly meaningless random holes in the structure.

First, on the assembly line, a laser + or x mark is shot into the hole to determine if the structure is in alignment AND, specifically that area.

Next, this information provided by the "engineers" is updated to iCar and through the Federal system. This is so us lowly, paint surfin' body guys don't f@ck it up on the Chief.

Once we get the car up, we proceed to the area of measurement provided by the engineers. These alignment holes have a 1 to 2mm tolerance. If a single hole is off... it's gettin' pulled because I went against the engineers.


Weight saving holes create even more of these potential areas of failure. The more holes, the easier it is to get out of alignment.



If they just randomly drilled holes into the existing structure, the next place they need to drill is between their f@ckin' eyes...


...save this whole planet some extra weight...

 

[ZaneWayne]

Yeah guys please don't get this thread locked. We are going to need it to go back and see who was right. It just pisses me off when "old" people talk down on "young" people. It is no ones fault of what age they are. One is in control of how mature they act, and that has nothing to do with age......hence with some on this forum.....

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Let's do an experiment...


Take a rigid structure and begin drilling random holes in it to reduce weight... and try to charge me $40,000 for it :lol:

Why on earth would you 'randomly' drill holes to reduce weight? That makes NO sense at all. Btw, technically nothing is 'rigid'.

Every single angle, alignment hole, brace (integrated or not) and work hardened area is ENGINEERED.

Riiiight, so what's w/ this 'random holes' example you just gave?:shrug:

Even GM isn't going to risk NOT engineering these in the correct area.

That's pretty obvious...

Just think, you get into a small accident and every one of those holes are compresses a fraction of a millimeter...

Depends on MANY variables...too many to list. As for holes in compression, I addressed this in my first post. You need to reread it.

There are many locations on any struture, be it aircraft, automobiles, buildings, etc, that simply don't carry load in whatever load conditions they will ever see. Having material in those locations does nothing but add weight.

You always talk about racing series...have you never noticed roll cage gussets? They're really hard to miss...:shrug:

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

You do understand this right?

The whole structural alignment is based on...


...wait for it...



...ALIGNMENT HOLES!!!!


Yes, these are the seemingly meaningless random holes in the structure.

First, on the assembly line, a laser + or x mark is shot into the hole to determine if the structure is in alignment AND, specifically that area.

Next, this information provided by the "engineers" is updated to iCar and through the Federal system. This is so us lowly, paint surfin' body guys don't f@ck it up on the Chief.

Once we get the car up, we proceed to the area of measurement provided by the engineers. These alignment holes have a 1 to 2mm tolerance. If a single hole is off... it's gettin' pulled because I went against the engineers.


Weight saving holes create even more of these potential areas of failure. The more holes, the easier it is to get out of alignment.



If they just randomly drilled holes into the existing structure, the next place they need to drill is between their f@ckin' eyes...


...save this whole planet some extra weight...

Calm down man, jeez.

 

[thePill]

Calm down man, jeez.

...I am calm...

...do you mean turn down the education???

I can't do that...

 

[thePill]

Why on earth would you 'randomly' drill holes to reduce weight? That makes NO sense at all. Btw, technically nothing is 'rigid'.



Riiiight, so what's w/ this 'random holes' example you just gave?:shrug:



That's pretty obvious...



Depends on MANY variables...too many to list. As for holes in compression, I addressed this in my first post. You need to reread it.

There are many locations on any struture, be it aircraft, automobiles, buildings, etc, that simply don't carry load in whatever load conditions they will ever see. Having material in those locations does nothing but add weight.

You always talk about racing series...have you never noticed roll cage gussets? They're really hard to miss...:shrug:

I am not even sure you considered this arguement before heading out...

"Random", would be the polar opposite of well planned engineering. If no engineering was involved, it would likely be a random selection... and each example would be slightly different.

Roll Cage/Bar gussets get their strength from Triangulation. The triangle is the most solid shape in geometry AND, can have lightweighting holes "engineered" into them. Ever notice the gusset holes after some collisions? Get back to me...

There are infinite variables in a collision. None of them are improved by missing metal... Intellectual construction sure but not putting a damn hole ever 2 inches in the structure. The Alpha ATS looks like Swiss cheese.

 

[02gtnh]

Another review and some nice video. Some don't like the Camaro, but boy does that NPP sound nice in the video.

 

[thePill]

Another review and some nice video. Some don't like the Camaro, but boy does that NPP sound nice in the video.

I feel Automobiles negativity towards the Camaro will be where most eventually lean to. I think the newness will wear off before Spring and sh!t will be flying then.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I am not even sure you considered this arguement before heading out...

Huh?

I'm quite familiar w/ the influence of holes in structure. Plenty of FAA documents have my signature on them regarding this very issue. There is no argument. I'm trying to teach you.

If they just randomly drilled holes into the existing structure, the next place they need to drill is between their f@ckin' eyes...


...save this whole planet some extra weight...

...do you mean turn down the education???

I can't do that...

This doesn't sound 'calm' nor 'education' to me? :shrug:

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Even notice the gusset holes after sime collisions? Get back to me...

Riiiiight. What you seem to be missing, that I've repeated a number of times is that leaving material in those holes does nothing to add strength.

Otherwise they would be solid, as you're proposing.

Try again.

 

[DiMaio90]

Right now, you seek approval from thePill on this topic. I think the likelihood of you guys getting screwed is high based on just the recent examples I've given. I refused for some time to attack anything Corvette related and, I admit, seeing all the issues its having AND thePill, the truth of truths avoiding (and totally not researching or reporting) the issue. My bad...

But, this is a trap long set in motion. I have zero control of the Corvette's outcome so, when the Vette and Camaro become closer relatives, I need to grind it up too.

However, that was a previous approach I took here on that subject. Since actual people are falling victim to this now, it is no longer an issue of personal victory.

Now, if you Camaro guys fall for the same sh!t??? What else can I do???

I know you don't like to address people's points. How you determined that I seek thePills approval is beyond me. I want to know if your man enough to admit you are wrong. Will you admit you were wrong if the camaro weighs less than 3780?

Btw if it is heavier I'm not getting screwed, I will never own a 6th gen camaro.

You address me as you camaro guys but you'd can't get it through your head that I am not some camaro guy

If you are not thePill, and thePill is just your source, then how was it ever about personal victory?

 

[thePill]

Huh?

I'm quite familiar w/ the influence of holes in structure. Plenty of FAA documents have my signature on them regarding this very issue. There is no argument. I'm trying to teach you.





This doesn't sound 'calm' nor 'education' to me? :shrug:

How could you assume "holes" in any structure do not need engineered if you are associated with the FAA and Aircraft...

The aircraft industry is where the automotive industry learned structure and these techniques...


Go drill holes in your aircraft structure without R&D... let me know how that flies.

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