Livernois Evenflo 160 Thermo

[arghx7]

Higher friction also hurts fuel economy and emissions. Some people care about that, some people don't. We can debate about friction and coolant temperature vs knock limit of the engine all day. It's entirely likely that spark timing benefits outweigh the friction penalty when you're trying to maximize power and torque, and I'm sure you're picking up power when you advance timing.

What we can't argue about is this claim that Ford cheats on its SAE rating runs by blatantly running nonstandard conditions and somehow convincing the SAE witness to overlook it. You're going to need to show some proof if that's part of your marketing of your product.

Somebody has to call you out on this. It's ridiculous.

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[Livernois Motorsports]

Higher friction also hurts fuel economy and emissions. Some people care about that, some people don't. We can debate about friction and coolant temperature vs knock limit of the engine all day. It's entirely likely that spark timing benefits outweigh the friction penalty when you're trying to maximize power and torque, and I'm sure you're picking up power when you advance timing.

What we can't argue about is this claim that Ford cheats on its SAE rating runs by blatantly running nonstandard conditions and somehow convincing the SAE witness to overlook it. You're going to need to show some proof if that's part of your marketing of your product.

Somebody has to call you out on this. It's ridiculous.

We never said anything about their SAE testing procedures. Only that these make optimal power at a lower temperature, and that testing is done at around 140 on numerous products. But no one mentioned that the SAE validated, and advertised numbers are at 140, only that power testing is done at this point. It's also done past this point as well.

Also, friction would be more of a point of oil temp, not coolant temp. Warm oil, plus low cylinder head temps always equal more power than cold/cold, or hot/hot.

 

[limequat]

One of the keys to longevity of modern engines is a high operating temperature. Regular trips over 212 F will bake any water and/or fuel out of the oil.
Is there any concern that a lower temp thermostat would increase engine wear?

 

[arghx7]

Ford does all of their power testing at around 140° coolant temp, so all we are doing is taking your ~177° stock unit down to 160° to get you as close to that 140° range without you losing your creature comforts of a modern vehicle.

So Ford does all their power testing at 140F, except for the only testing that matters, the testing under SAE rating conditions that generates a torque curve and peak power number for marketing purposes. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah, the engine knocks less at lower coolant temperature, and I'm sure Ford did studies on how the engine behaves under different thermal conditions. Nobody's debating that. But running lower coolant temperature is not some secret Ford trick you are bestowing upon the market. There are tradeoffs to dropping your coolant temperature, and the long term effects are not known.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy this product, or that a 160F thermostat will harm your engine, but use common sense and don't believe everything a vendor is trying to tell you, especially when they start backpedaling. Buyer beware, especially if you care about your warranty.

 

[tittermary]

So Ford does all their power testing at 140F, except for the only testing that matters, the testing under SAE rating conditions that generates a torque curve and peak power number for marketing purposes. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah, the engine knocks less at lower coolant temperature, and I'm sure Ford did studies on how the engine behaves under different thermal conditions. Nobody's debating that. But running lower coolant temperature is not some secret Ford trick you are bestowing upon the market. There are tradeoffs to dropping your coolant temperature, and the long term effects are not known.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy this product, or that a 160F thermostat will harm your engine, but use common sense and don't believe everything a vendor is trying to tell you, especially when they start backpedaling. Buyer beware, especially if you care about your warranty.

You have got to be kidding me, 160 thermostats with tuning have be a common upgrade since the 80s, pretty sure the "long term affects" are well know and Ill give you a hint there are none, and as far as the power testing at some sae standard the manaufacturs can and do claim what ever power they want, how bout the 98 ls1 that was rated at 285 but made closer to 300-310? Or the cobra that year that was rated at 305 and made closer to 270ish ? They don't use the sae standard for hp claims for marketing, Where in the world did you hear that?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

One of the keys to longevity of modern engines is a high operating temperature. Regular trips over 212 F will bake any water and/or fuel out of the oil.
Is there any concern that a lower temp thermostat would increase engine wear?

So Ford does all their power testing at 140F, except for the only testing that matters, the testing under SAE rating conditions that generates a torque curve and peak power number for marketing purposes. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah, the engine knocks less at lower coolant temperature, and I'm sure Ford did studies on how the engine behaves under different thermal conditions. Nobody's debating that. But running lower coolant temperature is not some secret Ford trick you are bestowing upon the market. There are tradeoffs to dropping your coolant temperature, and the long term effects are not known.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy this product, or that a 160F thermostat will harm your engine, but use common sense and don't believe everything a vendor is trying to tell you, especially when they start backpedaling. Buyer beware, especially if you care about your warranty.

We actually run the 160° in our shop F150 that gets driven hard daily, the owner's XSport that gets driven daily, the world record holding SHO also runs it daily driven. We have proven that there is no detriment to the high performance thermostat. We are not trying to take over the world $70 at a time.

We have several forum members that daily drive and race with our EvenFlo thermostat. As well as several vendors of the forum that use our thermostats on a daily basis. Lower temp thermostats have been around since thermostats were being put into cars.

We have been upfitting the EcoBoost platforms since 2009, we are not like most vendors that have just now shown interest because of the S550. We have a laundry list of WRs and claims to firsts as well. We would not waste time with producing a part just to produce a part. Everything that we engineer is performance minded. Hence why we do not offer VTA systems and the like.

 

[CoyoteFiveO]

Not being secretive...I do not know who your tuner is, nor their level of access and experience with the EcoBoost ECU.

Ford does all of their power testing at around 140° coolant temp, so all we are doing is taking your ~177° stock unit down to 160° to get you as close to that 140° range without you losing your creature comforts of a modern vehicle.

We cannot speak to your tuner's personal capabilities, software nor experience. We use all of our own exclusive tuning software and hardware.

Any videos or instructions on how to change to the new 160 thermostat? Just ordered mine and was curious on how small or big of a job it could be. Thanks

 

[Ron@cp-e]

Any videos or instructions on how to change to the new 160 thermostat? Just ordered mine and was curious on how small or big of a job it could be. Thanks

Mishimoto has a "how to" on their site for their silicone radiator hose kit installation
same principles apply to swap the thermostat

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Any videos or instructions on how to change to the new 160 thermostat? Just ordered mine and was curious on how small or big of a job it could be. Thanks

Honestly man it is crazy easy, it is a direct replacement part. Once you look at the upper rad hose you're gonna say,"DUH!" to yourself I promise. I am by no means a mechanic, but I can swap one out in under 20 mins taking my time. A little tip use a bucket or your engine cover to catch the run off ;)

 

[tittermary]

And use right stuff on the thermostat housing gasket , mine leaked and had to take it off twice never could get it to stop until I used some right stuff .

 

[limequat]

You have got to be kidding me, 160 thermostats with tuning have be a common upgrade since the 80s, pretty sure the "long term affects" are well know and Ill give you a hint there are none, and as far as the power testing at some sae standard the manaufacturs can and do claim what ever power they want, how bout the 98 ls1 that was rated at 285 but made closer to 300-310? Or the cobra that year that was rated at 305 and made closer to 270ish ? They don't use the sae standard for hp claims for marketing, Where in the world did you hear that?

If that were true, Ford would have put them in from the factory.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

If that were true, Ford would have put them in from the factory.

Once again I find myself stating that this is the 'modifications' section of the website. Using the 'factory' argument is moot.

There are no detrimental effects to using a lower temp stat. The car will fall apart around the engine before it fails due to using one. Your tailpipe emissions might be a bit higher as well.

 

[tittermary]

If that were true, Ford would have put them in from the factory.

So your thinking that ford is looking out for its customers with regards to long term reliability? And that this is a primary concern? Hmm have that discussion with a 6.0 owner, or anyone that had a vehical that had a e40d transmission or 4r70 in it, can the general public really be this gullible? Oh how bout a gm product with a 4l60 trans and the wonderful sun shell that was defective but gm used for 10 plus years? Wake up, the priorities the manufacturers have are not what you think. I can come up with a hundred examples with out evening trying as can anyone else who works in the industry.

 

[CoyoteFiveO]

Honestly man it is crazy easy, it is a direct replacement part. Once you look at the upper rad hose you're gonna say,"DUH!" to yourself I promise. I am by no means a mechanic, but I can swap one out in under 20 mins taking my time. A little tip use a bucket or your engine cover to catch the run off ;)

You mean lower radiator pipe? Driver side?

 

[drudis]

I installed the Livernois 160'F thermostat over the weekend.
Honestly its NOT an easy install...
(I am competent, EX: as I can do an intake gasket swap in 35 minutes..., but this thermostat install "seemed" almost as difficult, due to the lack of access, and spring clamps).
EDIT: Hindsight, I would get a friend to help, as you need 3 hands... One hand to compress the spring clamps (with pliers) on the hose, the other 2 hands to pull the hose off the housing. If you did this, the install would probably be 50% easier.

INSTALL:
I removed the overflow fluid with siphon.
Then removed the 3 hoses, and completely removed the overflow tank.
The large feeder line (bottom hose), was aimed down, and poured off most of the engine block fluid into a gallon jug.
If careful, you can collect about 1gal maybe even 1.5gal if really careful.
Then removed the thermostat bolts, BEFORE removing any hoses.
Yeah - I pulled the thermostat forward towards fan WITH hoses attached, so I could get pliers on the hose clamps for removal.
MARK THE HOSES & CLAMPS. I used a permanent marker to line up hoses and clamps and housing, so I know how it all aligns when re-installing.
Put on the new housing with hoses & clamps aligned as were on stock part.
Re-installed housing on the block.
Add back all the saved fluid. I was probably 1 quart low.
Bought NEW Motorcraft ORANGE from local dealership for like $12/gal premix 50/50.
*(they dont carry the PINK used on assembly line yet).
I bled the upper burp line with the new fluid, and topped off the overflow bottle to proper height.

Still cold here in Michigan, but gauge reading on dashboard you can monitor "Cylinder Head Temperature", and it reads a rock solid 178'F while driving. We'll see if it swings any, as temps warm up out of Winter mode...

So far so good.

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