Best Supercharger for GT - Price/Performance/Warranty

[Mustang_Owner]

Procharger guy passed me this HP/Torque curve of the standard procharger H.O. kit with canned tune:

Note the standard boost PSI with a 4.00 pulley maxed out around 7.4 PSI.

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[ProChargerTECH]

Procharger guy passed me this HP/Torque curve of the standard procharger H.O. kit with canned tune:

Note the standard boost PSI with a 4.00 pulley maxed out around 7.4 PSI.

#1) That dyno is hitting the SPEED LIMITER! (So not peak HP, or RPM)
(That car will make over 8psi out on the street, when the RPM isn't clipped by the speed limiter.
Revlimiter is at 7,300rpm. You can clearly see that Dyno ends early at 6,900

#2) That car was on poor quality winter blend gas.
Put some high quality 93 octane fuel (like they have in FL right now) in that car, and loooook out!

 

[MotorJoe]

Those curves really show why the CS's power delivery is more alike to a NA engine, it should be easier to drive. (I don't like to lend my car but I know that eventually my wife and son's will drive it :shrug.

I love driving Turbo´s but the ProCharger Kit seems more and more attractive...

 

[beefcake]

I love the power delivery!!

 

[JoeDogInKC]

I love the power delivery!!

Me too, that's my car.

 

[Mustang_Owner]

Me too, that's my car.

We have the same cars/color, but your car has a SC and mine does not (yet).

I've been thinking about boost versus HP/TQ versus tire traction. Did you notice that your tires spin much more now in first and second gear? Do they spin much more from 2300 RPM to 6500 RPM giving no real improvement in 0-60 MPH due to no traction? Note that at 4800 RPM, your 3.3 PSI boost gives you about the same horsepower as your original stock engine. Did you notice you get to 6500 RPM much faster now with the SC than before?

I was thinking about changing the 3.73 for a 3.15 (and possibly getting 20 x 11 rear wheels) to get less slip, but wondering how bad the slip in first and second is with the default HO kit. I was also thinking about going to a higher HP level, so I fear the slip might be even higher...

Although the below chart is probably slightly off a few MPH per RPM (since I recall noting a top speed of 195 MPH with 3.15 gears in 5th from a video with the Whipple, but the chart is showing the top speed is only around 191 MPH in 5th), it shows where the shift points would be if you didn't want to go over a certain RPM (HP/TQ rating) to keep the stresses lower. I was thinking about creating more boost than I need, then just not hitting that boost level very often. I could avoid shifting over a certain RPM unless I really 'need' that extra acceleration. If I could consciously pretend my redline is a few thousand RPM lower than reality for most city/highway driving with the SC, I could still get the power when I need it (vs a C7 vette, ZL1, most V8 AMGs, hellcat, and the 'exotics'), but also minimize engine wear/tear for daily driving. I know this sounds obvious, but I generally like to maximize acceleration for the enjoyment of my car. Give me 700 HP and it really takes me restraint to not use it all the time...

Running at a 'high' PSI means I'm probably going to end up shifting at a lower RPM than usual most of the time to hopefully extend engine life. Shifting early equates to making more shifts; so I am still leaning towards 3.15 gears:

 

[Chargedguard5.0]

We have the same cars/color, but your car has a SC and mine does not (yet).

I've been thinking about boost versus HP/TQ versus tire traction. Did you notice that your tires spin much more now in first and second gear? Do they spin much more from 2300 RPM to 6500 RPM giving no real improvement in 0-60 MPH due to no traction? Note that at 4800 RPM, your 3.3 PSI boost gives you about the same horsepower as your original stock engine. Did you notice you get to 6500 RPM much faster now with the SC than before?

I was thinking about changing the 3.73 for a 3.15 (and possibly getting 20 x 11 rear wheels) to get less slip, but wondering how bad the slip in first and second is with the default HO kit. I was also thinking about going to a higher HP level, so I fear the slip might be even higher...

Although this is probably a few MPH off per RPM since I used the front tires instead of the rear, it shows where the shift points would be if you didn't want to go over a certain RPM. I was thinking about creating more boost than I need, then just not shifting over a certain RPM unless I really 'need' that extra acceleration to keep the engine safer. I could try to not shift over 5000 in normal driving with the SC, but could max it out sometimes. Shifting earlier than usual means lots more shifts, so I am still leaning towards 3.15 gears

View attachment 21887

Your tires definitely spin more with the blower. With any blower you are going to tractions issues on street tires. Just make enough power so when u do hook you have no problem catching the other car.

 

[JoeDogInKC]

To answer your questions, yeah, there is definitely less traction. However, it's really hard for me to answer correctly since I'm currently running P-Zero Nero A/S's on mine. I took delivery in late Oct. and had to immediately swap to either Winter or A/S tires to be able to drive it in colder weather. I will say, it grips better than I expected too, even with these tires. Because of the torque curve, it's quite easy to drive, but, as you elicited, it revs up to redline much quicker than before due to the curves. You can pretty easily light the tires up in 2nd gear and it certainly effects 0 - 60 times. The best I've done so far is like 4.7s because of tires and temperature. I'm really looking forward to Summer when I can get some more grip and see how it does then.

 

[Mustang_Owner]

To answer your questions, yeah, there is definitely less traction. However, it's really hard for me to answer correctly since I'm currently running P-Zero Nero A/S's on mine. I took delivery in late Oct. and had to immediately swap to either Winter or A/S tires to be able to drive it in colder weather. I will say, it grips better than I expected too, even with these tires. Because of the torque curve, it's quite easy to drive, but, as you elicited, it revs up to redline much quicker than before due to the curves. You can pretty easily light the tires up in 2nd gear and it certainly effects 0 - 60 times. The best I've done so far is like 4.7s because of tires and temperature. I'm really looking forward to Summer when I can get some more grip and see how it does then.

Is that 4.7 in track apps? It's almost always summer temps here in South Florida, so I might try the 3.73 for a little while before going to 3.15. If I notice I don't get any traction, then it's only a $180 + install adder for 3.15. The new wider wheels/tires are much more $$, so they will come later if needed.

I found these tires that are rated a '10+' for dry traction, but require me to get the 20 x 11 rims also: http://www.americanmuscle.com/nitto-nt05r-315-35-20.html Unfortunately, they only last 15K miles during street driving, so they are only for track use. Also, too much traction + lots of extra power = high risk of breaking something in the drivetrain. So sticky DR tires probably not my first choice.

The summer tires that fix a 20 x 11 rim have a dry traction rating of 9.7 and cost less, but should last more than 15K miles : http://www.americanmuscle.com/mickey-thompson-comp-305-35-20.html

Note the default Pirelli 275 40 19 tires that come on the car have a dry traction rating of 8.9, so when I replace them (if I don't just buy the larger rims/tires), hoping the 9.7 dry traction rating makes some difference.

Although experimentation to avoid slip seems the way to go (like starting at a lower RPM in 1st and playing with the gas pedal force when in 1st), there's probably a way to calculate wheel slip and therefore the tire requirements for minimizing slip. But that's complicating things too much.

I did find this article: http://bsesrv214.bse.vt.edu/Hop/Papers/Tire-Road Friction Coefficient.pdf, but it looks like it would take forever to figure out the details to predict a tire size/dry traction rating versus some HP/TQ/acceleration/RPM/weight/gearing that happens to match the SC's and car's specs. I plan on trying the factory tires and factory gears, then trying some driving style changes to minimize slip, and if no improvement then just replace the gears/wheels/tires until the slip is tolerable. So if anybody is using the wider wheels or longer gear than the 3.73 and saw some measurable improvement in 0-60/100 or 1/4 mile, let us know!

 

[Jmeo]

So if anybody is using the wider wheels or longer gear than the 3.73 and saw some measurable improvement in 0-60/100 or 1/4 mile, let us know!

I have a PP GT and I swapped the factory 19's for the optional 20's and put 285's on the rear. I stayed with the summer P Zeros though. My car is at Tasca getting the Whipple installed but I'm also having the 3.73 gears changed to 3.31 so I'll keep you posted how my setup works.

If we can get rid of the 4+ f'n feet of snow and ice around here lol.

Jaime


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[caustin69]

Is that 4.7 in track apps? It's almost always summer temps here in South Florida, so I might try the 3.73 for a little while before going to 3.15. If I notice I don't get any traction, then it's only a $180 + install adder for 3.15. The new wider wheels/tires are much more $$, so they will come later if needed.

I found these tires that are rated a '10+' for dry traction, but require me to get the 20 x 11 rims also: http://www.americanmuscle.com/nitto-nt05r-315-35-20.html Unfortunately, they only last 15K miles during street driving, so they are only for track use. Also, too much traction + lots of extra power = high risk of breaking something in the drivetrain. So sticky DR tires probably not my first choice.

The summer tires that fix a 20 x 11 rim have a dry traction rating of 9.7 and cost less, but should last more than 15K miles : http://www.americanmuscle.com/mickey-thompson-comp-305-35-20.html

Note the default Pirelli 275 40 19 tires that come on the car have a dry traction rating of 8.9, so when I replace them (if I don't just buy the larger rims/tires), hoping the 9.7 dry traction rating makes some difference.

Although experimentation to avoid slip seems the way to go (like starting at a lower RPM in 1st and playing with the gas pedal force when in 1st), there's probably a way to calculate wheel slip and therefore the tire requirements for minimizing slip. But that's complicating things too much.

I did find this article: http://bsesrv214.bse.vt.edu/Hop/Papers/Tire-Road Friction Coefficient.pdf, but it looks like it would take forever to figure out the details to predict a tire size/dry traction rating versus some HP/TQ/acceleration/RPM/weight/gearing that happens to match the SC's and car's specs. I plan on trying the factory tires and factory gears, then trying some driving style changes to minimize slip, and if no improvement then just replace the gears/wheels/tires until the slip is tolerable. So if anybody is using the wider wheels or longer gear than the 3.73 and saw some measurable improvement in 0-60/100 or 1/4 mile, let us know!

I thought I read that the 3.15 wouldn't work With the Torsen carrier. Im thinking about doing the 3.31. I'm running 305 drag radials and still little traction.

 

[jayman33]

Really any DOT radial tire will spin. Some are a little better but its real easy to break them loose!

 

[beefcake]

Your tires definitely spin more with the blower. With any blower you are going to tractions issues on street tires. Just make enough power so when u do hook you have no problem catching the other car.

that's true, but with the centri, once you learn when to downshift, when not to downshift, it's much more controllable.

95% of the time, if your spinning, you've already lost

 

[Kyle@ROUSH]

I just to let you guys know I do have more info for this thread, I've got a meeting tomorrow for some final details but I have gotten with our engineering team and will have some real numbers regarding our kit and comparing it to some of the misleading/false claims some other guys are putting out.

 

[Process]

What turned me away from the roush kit was its installation process. I expected more from roush in their design to not make the car owner do so much hacking up of their car.

I would hope even roush can feel that's a fair statement.

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