Supercharger or Bolt-Ons First

[beefcake]

No question peak cylinder pressure is at peak torque but its very unlikely anyone is towing trailers with a mustang so one goes through peak torque rather quickly. Truck applications are detuned some for this very reason. One can't even maintain boost going up a long grade, we have plenty around here that we test on. The power to weight is so great, you can't maintain throttle unless you are on a salt flat or running on a test track like Hennessey did going 195 and climbing.... Since we've worked with OEM engineers, we know that 700RWHP is not an issue on piston and rod unless you detonate or run high EGT and cat temps. Therefore timing, airfuel and proper safety margins are all part of the equation to make one work.

Lund is great, but this is a different level. We've always set the standard, were using dual IAT's, not one, tuner kits don't, PC, Vortech, Paxton.... don't, therefore we have temp differential since there both critical. Since this is a torque based module, were not manipulating the torque tables, but predicting with proper supercharger, bypass, intercooler, manifold, throttle body and maf models. While I would love to explain some of the new adaptive logic and fail safes, I have to wait just a bit longer so nobody tries to copy it.

I guess tuning coyotes to 8 second et's on paxtons, vortechs, prochargers, whipples, kb's, and turbo's isn't good enough to be considered next level, but what do I know.

I thought Lethal was going to be testing the other day, I see hp numbers from the eom calibration, but no et's?

Care to share what the car ran?

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[Whipple SC]

Nowhere did they say that. In fact, he stated exactly what you did, that it was running at 13PSI (pulley change) and a custom tune, and on regular pump gas.

Its pretty simple, everyone can make changes and add parts and make more power. But what comes in the box, what gets loaded in the PCM, what the guy can install in his garage is what were discussing and that is a big difference. As you add parts, custom tuning, etc it changes the price. Instead of giving the customer a tool to make more power, we supply the kitchen sink, oven, utensils and the recipe, not just the sugar....

Therefore, while the PC is significantly cheaper, its also shipped "AS" a lower power output. With changes, the power can be right up there, but at an added expense. Maybe cheaper, may not, doesn't really matter as that's an open ended discussion.

 

[Whipple SC]

I guess tuning coyotes to 8 second et's on paxtons, vortechs, prochargers, whipples, kb's, and turbo's isn't good enough to be considered next level, but what do I know.

I thought Lethal was going to be testing the other day, I see hp numbers from the eom calibration, but no et's?

Care to share what the car ran?

Correct, its not next level. That's utilizing the tools at hand and being very good with them, which Lund and Ken surely are, top notch for sure. But this is far beyond that.

You will see all the Lethal info in the new article coming out next week. FYI, Lethal was running a test cal. Production cals are far different. Certainly stay tuned.....

 

[LethalPerformance]

Not really, Not even Close.

Boost levels are not even remotely comparable.

8psi vs 10/11psi


PLEASE USE THE CORRECT MSRP!

The Whipple (650rwhp) as you state = MSRP $8295
7,295 System + $600 throttle body (and likely the dual fans + $400)

vs.

Our HO System = MSRP $6099

A difference of $2196 (not counting what "street" price of our system is)







We aren't posting some "GLORY" dyno pull on the internet.
Just posting factual data of what our customers get with our kits.

520-580rwhp has been made with 8psi HO systems on stock tuning **By our customers
598rwhp has been made with just 8psi on HO systems (custom tuned)
709rwhp has been made on 13psi pump gas (custom tuning)

With our entry level HO System!

So at the end of the day, remember we can easily remove the tuning from our system, save the customer money, and they have a kit ready to make BIG power numbers and still have money left over for axles, and tires.

Maybe once more STG2 cars get out there with 9psi, you will have a little more "fair" comparison to the higher 10/11psi boost numbers your claiming.
Yet still have a system priced far below any of competitors.

Reason for my Blue "**"
Are there any actual customer dyno runs at this 650rwhp level, with the stock supplied tuning and pump fuel?

Please don't refer me to the ONE video showing the 647rwhp dyno, that doesn't verify tuning/fuel and looks to be a company installed demo.
Nor the AmericanMuscle video where the car is on 116 octane fuel.

I don't follow their stuff so I am not "in the loop" I apologize in advance.

But I have been waiting like the rest of the internet on some numbers from pretty big install places, though neither of them are using stock tuning according to their posts on the internet/facebook

No power numbers from the Lethal Car (dyno video up since the 2nd) * Custom tuned
No power numbers from the JMS Chip Car (posted on the 5th) *Custom Tuned

Obviously hopefully more DIY installs will start popping up, since it seems plenty of people have the systems now.
Then we can see how many will run the 100% stock tuning, and Pump gas.

BUT UNTIL THEN, PLEASE STOP THE APPLES TO ORANGES COMPARISONS.

Just want to clear up that our car was not custom tuned at that point and was only running the first test cal we received from Whipple. The numbers also haven't been released as they are part of an exclusive article with another site that will be announced next week.

Hope that helps clear up any confusion.

Thanks

 

[JoeDogInKC]

Its pretty simple, everyone can make changes and add parts and make more power. But what comes in the box, what gets loaded in the PCM, what the guy can install in his garage is what were discussing and that is a big difference. As you add parts, custom tuning, etc it changes the price. Instead of giving the customer a tool to make more power, we supply the kitchen sink, oven, utensils and the recipe, not just the sugar....

Therefore, while the PC is significantly cheaper, its also shipped "AS" a lower power output. With changes, the power can be right up there, but at an added expense. Maybe cheaper, may not, doesn't really matter as that's an open ended discussion.

I get that, but that's not what you said. You implied that they were making that out of the box and nowhere did they state that.

Now, you can get their Stage 2 kit, install it in your garage just as easily as the H.O. kit and run 650rwhp right out of the box with their extremely conservative tune while having it cost you very little extra money.

 

[Whipple SC]

I get that, but that's not what you said. You implied that they were making that out of the box and nowhere did they state that.

Now, you can get their Stage 2 kit, install it in your garage just as easily as the H.O. kit and run 650rwhp right out of the box with their extremely conservative tune while having it cost you very little extra money.

They specifically said 520-580rwhp with the HO kit. See there previous post. I didn't know they were shipping out kits that out of the box makes 650rwhp..... Per there own website, it says the HO is 45-50% gains and Stage 2 is 55%.

So again, while I understand one can make that with changes, that's not what's out of the box....

 

[evo8904]

I get that, but that's not what you said. You implied that they were making that out of the box and nowhere did they state that.

Now, you can get their Stage 2 kit, install it in your garage just as easily as the H.O. kit and run 650rwhp right out of the box with their extremely conservative tune while having it cost you very little extra money.

Look at post 9. My reply quoting PC. PC implied that ~$5k made 709rwhp. Lol...ok I would love to see that.

 

[Evolvd]

 

[Chargedguard5.0]

I would do the blower over bolt ons. Any blower will make u happier than bolt ons.

 

[beefcake]

Look at post 9. My reply quoting PC. PC implied that ~$5k made 709rwhp. Lol...ok I would love to see that.

That won't be a problem with my Paxton package, it will be around 700rwhp. With a $1000 injector instead of a $300 one, and come in under 6k

 

[beefcake]

Look at post 9. My reply quoting PC. PC implied that ~$5k made 709rwhp. Lol...ok I would love to see that.

That won't be a problem with my Paxton package, it will be around 700rwhp. With a $1000 injector instead of a $300 one, and come in under 6k

Of course I can include a $300 injector and be closer to $5k

 

[Jmeo]

Wow I thank the OP for initiating this discussion. I have learned a lot reading these posts.

Everybody has different needs/wants and most importantly wallets. I honestly have never even been in a car with a centrifugal kit so I can't speak for those but I like instant "tap on demand" power and for that reason like blowers. I investigated Kenne Belle, Roush,Saleene and Whipple. I went with Whipple on my 05 and I am again having a Whipple installed on my 15 at Tasca Mod Shop as we type.

Honestly one can't go wrong with either type. Like blowers? Get a blower. Like centrifugal?get centrifugal. Like turbocharged? Get turbo.

My advice to the OP is to research what each "type" of power adder does and go with what you like the best.

I will say this. I hear a lot of people saying the Whipple Kit is priced way to high compared to the competition but in my honest opinion no one else comes close to the same kit and that's why they are cheaper. I almost pulled the trigger on a Roush kit but when I saw what was included in the Whipple Kit and did the math I actually ended up saving money going Whipple. Roush's Kit does not give you the MASSIVE throttle body, the dual fan kit, the fuel rails, the quantity or quality (imo) of the heat exchanger and reservoir/capacity let alone the power levels of the Whipple. You would have to wait who knows how long for the stage 1 to 3 kit to come out, spend probably close to $2,000 more to get it PLUS more labor cost to still not get everything you get with the Whipple Kit.

I am a true Whipple believer and can say their kits are top notch with fit and finnish and quality and most important performance (installation directions could use some work though lol [emoji6]) . This is just my honest opinion and I look forward to hearing other people's experiences.

Now, I do have an ecoboost F150 with twin turbos and I must say it is amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Evolvd]

I find it odd how everyone is focused on peak power. Power UNDER the curve should be a relevant topic of discussion. However, until ProCharger, Whipple et. al. release a dyno graph for their "out-of-the box" kits compared to stock, we won't know how much power under the curve they make.

 

[Nomad]

That won't be a problem with my Paxton package, it will be around 700rwhp. With a $1000 injector instead of a $300 one, and come in under 6k

If it's ever released!!!! :frusty: :tsk:

 

[evo8904]

That won't be a problem with my Paxton package, it will be around 700rwhp. With a $1000 injector instead of a $300 one, and come in under 6k

Yeah, the ID injectors are nice!

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