Bad head gaskets on new Gen 3 coyote?

[dstetts]

I purchased my 2018 GT as a RAV (with an extended warranty) just a few months ago. Ran great for the first month or so. But, a couple weeks ago, I was driving around town and my car started running rough, and the low oil pressure alarm blinked. Pulled over, checked oil, looked good.

I took it into the dealership I bought the car from and after a few days, they told me that it was burning oil and that oil was not reaching the top of the engine. They told me they ordered a new engine (my service advisor assured me it would be a new engine). They pulled the engine Tuesday and let me know they planned on having it done by Friday. I reached out today to make sure we were progressing and were set for pickup tomorrow.

However, I was informed that the car would be delayed because the gaskets needed replaced on the new motor. If this truly was a new engine, how would it be possible for the gaskets to go bad before it was ever used? Is there any way to confirm when I pickup the car next week that it is in fact a new engine? What questions should I be asking to make sure I’m covering my bases?

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[mrgooden]

Maybe they got a short block?

Richard

 

[K4fxd]

Maybe they got a short block?

If it wasn't getting oil to the top I'd make sure it got new heads and cams.

 

[mrgooden]

If it wasn't getting oil to the top I'd make sure it got new heads and cams.

What you want and I want, may not be what they want. Doesn't hurt to ask. That is the only reason I could see a delay for head gaskets.

Richard

 

[K4fxd]

What you want and I want, may not be what they want.

I'd be at the dealer and ask along with looking at the replacment. If it is a short block I'd call customer service right away.

 

[dstetts]

After discussing the repairs with the dealership and Ford corp., it does appear that work order lists a factory long block for replacement ( Part # M-6006-M50C ). I confronted my tech to understand why the new engine was disassembled to know that the head gaskets were shot...

It turns out he misspoke last week when he said the head gaskets needed replaced. Instead, the manifold gaskets were what actually needed replaced.


Stopped by the dealership this morning and they were finishing up attaching the trans. It should be put together by late afternoon today and back in my hands early tomorrow as long as they are able to put some miles on it and confirm it runs well.

 

[K4fxd]

Great news!

 

[Bulldog9]

After discussing the repairs with the dealership and Ford corp., it does appear that work order lists a factory long block for replacement ( Part # M-6006-M50C ). I confronted my tech to understand why the new engine was disassembled to know that the head gaskets were shot...

It turns out he misspoke last week when he said the head gaskets needed replaced. Instead, the manifold gaskets were what actually needed replaced.


Stopped by the dealership this morning and they were finishing up attaching the trans. It should be put together by late afternoon today and back in my hands early tomorrow as long as they are able to put some miles on it and confirm it runs well.

That's what I was thinking, was a manifold (intake or exhaust) gasket, both are needed if they are swapping out a long block. Was very unlikely they were swapping a short block given the lack of oil circ to heads.

Any idea what the failure was on the stock motor? Seems to me that there have been very few Coyotes crapping the bed. Was the car a ticker? 2.5K rattle? etc?

 

[dstetts]

That's what I was thinking, was a manifold (intake or exhaust) gasket, both are needed if they are swapping out a long block. Was very unlikely they were swapping a short block given the lack of oil circ to heads.

Any idea what the failure was on the stock motor? Seems to me that there have been very few Coyotes crapping the bed. Was the car a ticker? 2.5K rattle? etc?

Never any tick or rattle, but did experience some of the issues with rough idle talked about around here. Twice, the car entered limp mode and there were a couple CEL ( P0172 was one ), but they never lasted. Turning the car off and back on returned the car to normal. Overall, the problems have been very intermittent.

I took the car in to the dealership twice before this, where I complained of rough idle and some strange feedback I felt with the clutch. It felt crunchy, almost like the synchros going bad. They replaced wheel bearings the first time and the second time, the dealership I took it to would not touch it due to it being a RAV. Just like the rough idle and limp mode, the feedback with the clutch would come and go over the past 4000 miles or so (bought at 38k, currently at 42k). The car was purchased back due to it burning oil, but the Oasis report did not show any major repairs were ever done to the car, just removing a complete aftermarket exhaust before they listed it for sale. I put 5w50 in it and never noticed any major change in the oil level during my 4000 miles.

I am tuned by Lund, and when removing the tune, the car had a noticeable shake and RPM would fluctuate at idle between 500-1500 aggressively. Re-tuning the car seemed to make the shake go away. Not sure if that is related, but I will confirm once I get the car back.

They have not told me a cause for failure, but I suspect OPGs. Hopefully the work order will give us some more information, but I will ask the tech when I pick the car up tomorrow and see if they can give me any info, or if they are shipping this one out to Ford for investigation.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Never any tick or rattle, but did experience some of the issues with rough idle talked about around here. Twice, the car entered limp mode and there were a couple CEL ( P0172 was one ), but they never lasted. Turning the car off and back on returned the car to normal. Overall, the problems have been very intermittent.

I took the car in to the dealership twice before this, where I complained of rough idle and some strange feedback I felt with the clutch. It felt crunchy, almost like the synchros going bad. They replaced wheel bearings the first time and the second time, the dealership I took it to would not touch it due to it being a RAV. Just like the rough idle and limp mode, the feedback with the clutch would come and go over the past 4000 miles or so (bought at 38k, currently at 42k). The car was purchased back due to it burning oil, but the Oasis report did not show any major repairs were ever done to the car, just removing a complete aftermarket exhaust before they listed it for sale. I put 5w50 in it and never noticed any major change in the oil level during my 4000 miles.

I am tuned by Lund, and when removing the tune, the car had a noticeable shake and RPM would fluctuate at idle between 500-1500 aggressively. Re-tuning the car seemed to make the shake go away. Not sure if that is related, but I will confirm once I get the car back.

They have not told me a cause for failure, but I suspect OPGs. Hopefully the work order will give us some more information, but I will ask the tech when I pick the car up tomorrow and see if they can give me any info, or if they are shipping this one out to Ford for investigation.

So you bought a Ford RAV Buy Back that had inherent oil consumption issues - that was Lemon'd by the previous owner - but NOT fixed prior to a resale to a retail customer.

Then you add a LUND tune to it, experience more issues - remove the tune - Ford Service Center diagnosis is the car will need a new long block... and they do one under warranty...

You better play the lotto ... because for all intentional purposes, the car having an aftermarket tune should have been a flag to the Service Center before authorizing an engine replacement.

--
One more note - if OASIS is showing that car had oil consumption issues, but no repair, which resulted in it being a Lemon Buy back... the Dealership who resold a Ford RAV to a retail customer WITHOUT fixing the initial problem that caused the Ford RAV Buy Back is in the wrong. A Ford RAV unit is not to be resold to a retail Customer until all issues that deemed it a Lemon Buy Back have been fully repaired and it has gone through a thorough review process. See attached Ford decal, that should be affixed to the driver side B-pillar near or below the original VCL or tire labels.

Did the selling Dealership tell you that it was a repaired RAV Lemon before you bought it?

 

[dstetts]

So you bought a Ford RAV Buy Back that had inherent oil consumption issues - that was Lemon'd by the previous owner - but NOT fixed prior to a resale to a retail customer.

Then you add a LUND tune to it, experience more issues - remove the tune - Ford Service Center diagnosis is the car will need a new long block... and they do one under warranty...

You better play the lotto ... because for all intentional purposes, the car having an aftermarket tune should have been a flag to the Service Center before authorizing an engine replacement.

--
One more note - if OASIS is showing that car had oil consumption issues, but no repair, which resulted in it being a Lemon Buy back... the Dealership who resold a Ford RAV to a retail customer WITHOUT fixing the initial problem that caused the Ford RAV Buy Back is in the wrong. A Ford RAV unit is not to be resold to a retail Customer until all issues that deemed it a Lemon Buy Back have been fully repaired and it has gone through a thorough review process. See attached Ford decal, that should be affixed to the driver side B-pillar near or below the original VCL or tire labels.

Did the selling Dealership tell you that it was a repaired RAV Lemon before you bought it?

I am not particularly lucky, so I'll take what I can get... The tune actually helped mitigate the problems somewhat, though I am not exactly sure why. The dealership did notify me that it was a RAV. No decal has been attached to this one though. They had just gotten the car the week prior to me buying, so they definitely rushed it out of the door without proper diligence.

I got the car back last night, drives great. I am still waiting on a shift boot cover since they damaged mine taking the trans out, but they are on backorder a couple weeks. I'll attach the write-up from the tech in case anyone is interested:

 

[Bulldog9]

I am not particularly lucky, so I'll take what I can get... The tune actually helped mitigate the problems somewhat, though I am not exactly sure why. The dealership did notify me that it was a RAV. No decal has been attached to this one though. They had just gotten the car the week prior to me buying, so they definitely rushed it out of the door without proper diligence.

I got the car back last night, drives great. I am still waiting on a shift boot cover since they damaged mine taking the trans out, but they are on backorder a couple weeks. I'll attach the write-up from the tech in case anyone is interested:

I'd be dropping that off at Carvana or Carmax by Friday............

 

[dstetts]

I'd be dropping that off at Carvana or Carmax by Friday............

If I wanted to lose 10 grand in capital, sure.

 

[Soonertim4]

I purchased my 2018 GT as a RAV (with an extended warranty) just a few months ago. Ran great for the first month or so. But, a couple weeks ago, I was driving around town and my car started running rough, and the low oil pressure alarm blinked. Pulled over, checked oil, looked good.

I took it into the dealership I bought the car from and after a few days, they told me that it was burning oil and that oil was not reaching the top of the engine. They told me they ordered a new engine (my service advisor assured me it would be a new engine). They pulled the engine Tuesday and let me know they planned on having it done by Friday. I reached out today to make sure we were progressing and were set for pickup tomorrow.

However, I was informed that the car would be delayed because the gaskets needed replaced on the new motor. If this truly was a new engine, how would it be possible for the gaskets to go bad before it was ever used? Is there any way to confirm when I pickup the car next week that it is in fact a new engine? What questions should I be asking to make sure I’m covering my bases?

Glad that it all worked out for you.

 

[geep81]

A Ford RAV unit is not to be resold to a retail Customer until all issues that deemed it a Lemon Buy Back have been fully repaired and it has gone through a thorough review process.

I can verify that they do this anyway. My car that was bought back for bad paint, I occasionally look up the VIN on. I see it sat for a year after my buy back, was sent to NJ and bought there, and then that new owner lemon lawed it in NJ as well.

I was first made aware of this because I received emails from the NJ Ford dealer to my email about service appointments. There were a couple, then nothing anymore.

When I let my salesman know I saw it on the NJ state lemon list now, he finally admitted he suspected Ford would just send it to auction instead of re-painting the entire car like it needed.

So I definitely suspect they send RAV buy backs back out to unsuspecting customers to try to get out of fixing them.

Attaching a screenshot of the google search for the VIN just for fun.

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