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2015 Mustang GT PP vs. 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE

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DivineStrike

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I don't think I can agree with you... It's not like the GT PP runs much of a staggered setup to begin with; 255F/275R as a ratio is far more aggressive than a lot of high powered production models. If anything, the 1LE and Z28 are anomalies for OEM-spec RWD cars coming square from the showroom floor, and they're definitely not the only cars out there with progressive oversteer and strong front end grip. And weight balance would only be part of the equation. The only productions cars that come with an actual neutral 50/50 split or anything rear-biased are typically front-mid engined at the most. Again, plenty of FR cars out there with front-end weight bias, a strong front end, and efficient torque application with progressive limits and a neutral balance. Bumping up the front tire sections to square it out won't do anything to make rear break away more progressive.
I don't know if progressive is the right word for me to use in this instance maybe. What I am implying by being improved upon by going to a square setup vs the staggered is the transition between understeer and oversteer. Otherwords the amount of throttle you need to correct the understeer. If it were a square setup you wouldn't need that much MORE throttle to correct the understeer as the front end would just bite allowing you to ease on the throttle to induce oversteer vs applying the throttle quickly to correct understeer. I hope that makes sense. My only reasoning for mentioning the weight bias in relation to the staggered set up is that it works against a staggered setup inducing more understeer. A car that is more balanced or has more of a rear bias are the only ones that can truly take advantage of staggering on a road course. Sure on the strip and DDing there are advantages. But with Front heavy cars, Square is just a much better starting point to tune your suspension from. Just overall better on the track.

Anyway I'm rambling now, I think we generally agree tires and suspension need to be improved upon. You just prefer a staggered setup, that is where we can disagree :thumbsup:
 

OppoLock

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I don't know if progressive is the right word for me to use in this instance maybe. What I am implying by being improved upon by going to a square setup vs the staggered is the transition between understeer and oversteer. Otherwords the amount of throttle you need to correct the understeer. If it were a square setup you wouldn't need that much MORE throttle to correct the understeer as the front end would just bite allowing you to ease on the throttle to induce oversteer vs applying the throttle quickly to correct understeer. I hope that makes sense. My only reasoning for mentioning the weight bias in relation to the staggered set up is that it works against a staggered setup inducing more understeer. A car that is more balanced or has more of a rear bias are the only ones that can truly take advantage of staggering on a road course. Sure on the strip and DDing there are advantages. But with Front heavy cars, Square is just a much better starting point to tune your suspension from. Just overall better on the track.

Anyway I'm rambling now, I think we generally agree tires and suspension need to be improved upon. You just prefer a staggered setup, that is where we can disagree :thumbsup:
Haha, fair enough. :kickrock: :D

I'm a bit rambly and overly wordy myself, and I do want to clarify: a square setup can be great for the track, but it's not needed to have a neutral car, and it definitely isn't ideal for a DD car.
 

akwal07

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Sorry, but they aren't. Any upgrade won't be until 2018. We would have heard about it already and they would be testing it, but there's nothing out there right now.
I'm sticking to 2016 will see upgrades with 2017 being the absolute latest...no way they let the new camaro get off to that hot of a start. I'm thinking they wanted to make big noise at the same time as the new camaros came out, but couldn't neglect a 50 year anniversary celebration with a new platform.
 

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Dosia

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Sorry, but they aren't. Any upgrade won't be until 2018. We would have heard about it already and they would be testing it, but there's nothing out there right now.
2018? Keep dreaming. Once the new Camaro is rolled out, Ford will respond quickly. 2017 is most likely when it happens.
 

alexyardigans

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Look as soon as the hp came in at 435hp and heavier I was out.
The S550 sounds like a Lincoln for crying out loud, is 45k well equipped, and is heavier and officially slower than my 2011.

A 1LE comparison??? Now that's hilarious.

But hey, it's got a great interior buddy. As if I ever cared about that in any of my previous Mustangs.
 

DivineStrike

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I'm sticking to 2016 will see upgrades with 2017 being the absolute latest...no way they let the new camaro get off to that hot of a start. I'm thinking they wanted to make big noise at the same time as the new camaros came out, but couldn't neglect a 50 year anniversary celebration with a new platform.

The thing is, the Mustang doesn't have to make a big improvement to achieve their goal this time around, like they did when the camaro was released. In all honesty, the Mustang is the first out the gate this time with all these improvements they've made (aside from irs obviously). Yes, they are losing the performance side, but with all the other improvements they've made, they will for sure win the sales crown. This time it's the Camaro that will have to play catch up. Unless of course the camaro is still able to ride that Transformers promotional wave.

IMO the 50th is of enough significance to yield the Mustang a lot of visibility. Would be better IMO had Ford been lucky enough to capitalize on a Summer box office hit like the camaro, but I hope and think it will be enough on it's own.

I will agree with most that 2017 will be the larger increase at the earliest.
 
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Oh I completely agree that the interior of the Camaro is no where near the new Mustang. I'm only referring to lap times....performance. For example, if the lap time of the 1LE at VIR is 3:00, I want to see the PP right around that. Prediction that I would be comfortable with...

1LE VIR lap time 2:59
GT PP VIR lap time 3:00 to 3:02

Would love obviously to see the PP break sub 3 min though.

Noonz! Where are you?
I bring back one of my first page posts from my thread. I knew this would be the outcome; that the GT PP would take a slight back seat to the 1LE. I felt this for the obvious reasons... Massive disadvantage of wheel/tire width and tire compound. I also assumed the 1LE would have firmer dampers.

Again, ford choose to not throw punch for punch in this regard. Was it a mistake? Maybe if just for the magazine bragging rights, but they also knew (I am assuming) that the Mustang customer would want to tailor their ride and tune the suspension and wheels as they see fit. That's where you spend your few thousand you save from the 1LE. They took the approach of a compromised track set up to appease a larger audience.

They succeeded.
 

qwkcoupe

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The 'Performance' Pack needs digressive valved Bilsteins for stiffer springs and anti-sway bars and wider tires.

The 'Track' drive mode needs to be on lighter Base GT.

Ford nailed the uni-body (unless they can take even more weight out of the BIW).
 

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akwal07

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I bring back one of my first page posts from my thread. I knew this would be the outcome; that the GT PP would take a slight back seat to the 1LE. I felt this for the obvious reasons... Massive disadvantage of wheel/tire width and tire compound. I also assumed the 1LE would have firmer dampers.

Again, ford choose to not throw punch for punch in this regard. Was it a mistake? Maybe if just for the magazine bragging rights, but they also knew (I am assuming) that the Mustang customer would want to tailor their ride and tune the suspension and wheels as they see fit. That's where you spend your few thousand you save from the 1LE. They took the approach of a compromised track set up to appease a larger audience.

They succeeded.
The 1le is the same pricewise as the 15gt pp I thought and the drive ratio also gives the camaro an advantage combined with all you said...but again that's Ford's fault
 

Khell86

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The camaro 1LE does a great job for the price, but one thing i dont like is the comparison of a 1SS 1LE against a fully optioned GT without the recaros. A base GT with recaros and PP vs a 1SS 1LE would have been a better comparison. It is pretty obvious that ford wasnt planning on going all out and shooting for that top spot. Maybe the reason why the "track" package from the previous model changed to the "performance" pack instead.
 

wjones14

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My first thought was disappointment, like most others. But there are plenty of positives too. The Mustang GT is better than it ever was, in every way (except poundage). ;) Randy said the Mustang was a blast to drive on the track.

I do track my car, so how it does on a track is very important to me. But I track the car once a year or so, and the rest of the time it's on the public roads. That means 99.7% of the time the car is not on the track.

So I'm not going to base my $40,000 decision on track times alone. I've been to a bunch of track days now, and a Mustang GT is never going to be the fastest car there. It's a nice car and is definitely not out of place at the events, but it's not a Porsche GT3, or a C7, or a Z28, or a GT-R. It doesn't lessen my fun at all when I have to give a point-bye to a $150K R8. I'm just there to drive the car as fast as I can, hang the tail out some, and maybe pass a few STIs or 3-series BMWs along the way.

One thing the video did do for me, however, was to make me more confused than ever. :confused: I had pretty much narrowed my choices down to a Mustang GT PP or BMW M235i. Now, the 2016 Camaro is very much in the picture - yes I would have to wait a whole year more, but the 2016 reveal in a couple months is now going to be even more interesting...
 

DivineStrike

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The camaro 1LE does a great job for the price, but one thing i dont like is the comparison of a 1SS 1LE against a fully optioned GT without the recaros. A base GT with recaros and PP vs a 1SS 1LE would have been a better comparison. It is pretty obvious that ford wasnt planning on going all out and shooting for that top spot. Maybe the reason why the "track" package from the previous model changed to the "performance" pack instead.
Why not? the Mustang still holds the advantage in weight, still lost. Honestly equipping the mustang to be as heavy as it can be (getting it closer to Camaro weight), can give us a better comparison as to which car is better sorted. However I do agree they should be similarly equipped, but if you add recaro's to the mustang you have to add them to the Camaro. So any advantage gained there would be a moot point.

You might be onto something with that last assessment of yours.
 
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