Are you kidding me??? Cooling Post

[shogun32]

Below is mine and is exactly 2 inch behind the radiator

not to be pedantic but 2" behind which 'edge' of the radiator? 2" behind the trailing edge of the fan shroud? or?

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[Ewheels]

not to be pedantic but 2" behind which 'edge' of the radiator? 2" behind the trailing edge of the fan shroud? or?

2 inches behind the trailing edge of the actual radiator

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Prior to install I was seeing coolant temps climbing after long straights and could easily push temps to 240+ even short shifting at 5.5K at full load.

I'm now getting 10F drops on long straights even raising shift points to 6K and hardly cracking 230F.

I think I'm in the ballpark. I guess we'll see!

 

[NeverSatisfied]

More progress... I think I'm on the home stretch in my effort for the economic track day beater 5.0


2019 PP2

• 305/30/19 RS4 on 19x11 square
• -3F/-2.2R camber. 28psi R 29psi F and relatively even temps with pyro.
• Mishimoto radiator
• FPP trans air scoop
• FTBR Diff Cooler
• GLOC R18/R12, Motul 600, SS hoses
• Middle and side Racelouvers

Watkins Glen, Sunny high of 93F. full 25 minute sessions.Pouring coals to it, but still short shifting at 6K RPM.

• Cyl Head temp never exceed 238F
• Diff max was 220F
• Oil temp (ECM Calculated) stayed on upper end of "normal"
• Transmission shifted fine. No lock out, etc. (it is one sloppy shifter though!)

Still need to add

• Remote engine oil cooler
• Radiator ducting--currently large openings for air bypass on the upper left and right sides.
• Transmission oil and engine oil temp gauges.

I hope this is the last few items on the punch list so I can start to use all the horsepowers

 

[SmokinAces]

Thnx NeverSatisfied, this gives me hope. Great to hear. You lucky dog, running at Watkins Glenn!! I’m at a much slower pace than you, but do run my tire pressures exactly the same way. Ran at COTA last weekend, in approx 89-93 degrees and managed to get the diff overheating msg. I believe it comes on at 260 deg but no limp mode yet. It appears I’ll be ordering a diff cooler over the winter. Still not sure I need to up grade the radiator yet. Are you also running water wetter solution? In the process of adding the side vents to the hood. All I need is to get my car running in intermediate without issue. Hey sir we need at least one good picture.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Thnx NeverSatisfied, this gives me hope. Great to hear. You lucky dog, running at Watkins Glenn!! I’m at a much slower pace than you, but do run my tire pressures exactly the same way. Ran at COTA last weekend, in approx 89-93 degrees and managed to get the diff overheating msg. I believe it comes on at 260 deg but no limp mode yet. It appears I’ll be ordering a diff cooler over the winter. Still not sure I need to up grade the radiator yet. Are you also running water wetter solution? In the process of adding the side vents to the hood. All I need is to get my car running in intermediate without issue. Hey sir we need at least one good picture.

Yes the Glen is an awesome place! No pictures, but yes, only 1 gal ford concentrate and one bottle of water wetter in the cooling system.

 

[TX-2019-Black_GT]

Hey NeverSatisfied, Thanks for sharing all of this. I've been trying to figure out where to start on my 2019 GT Automatic, which must have some overheating issue. My first HPDE was at MSR Houston in May, and toward the ends of may later, faster sessions the car started limiting RPMs, shifting at around 5000 instead of 7500. Unfortunately, I didn't have my OBDII linked to my phone yet, having some trouble getting that to work correctly. So, I don't have data logged. I never saw any warnings, so I'm not sure what was overheating. I did check the gauges near the very end, and oil was at the end of 'green' and start of 'yellow'. The GT does not give oil temp in degrees, but y'all are saying it's not actually measured anyway. This thread has some good info, it shows the oil temperatures that each gauge color range corresponds to. This would mean my oil hit 280F max.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4889986/2

Whether it's actually measured or not seems unclear in the forums. I think an actual oil temp sensor doesn't cost much, so I don't know why they would skip it. So, I searched and found in Ford's 2019 OBD System Operation Summary document, p266, info on the engine oil temp (EOT) sensor, which does indeed measure the oil temp. After that, it goes on to explain the 'inferred' oil temp. What the computer does is compare measured to inferred, and if the discrepancy is too large, it sets a diagnostic code indicating the EOT sensor might have failed.

Now, my trans temp maxed out at 213F, and the gauge isn't 'yellow' until 260, and red at 270, so this does not seem to be the problem.

Differential? It looks like the PP Mustangs have an axle temp gauge that can be selected, but the GT does not. Does the GT even have a diff temp sensor? If it did, I should have seen a warning light, right?

So I'm still not sure what's causing it to shift at lower rpms, but it must be something overheating. It would be great if anyone can help me figure this out. In the meantime, I'll keep searching the forums, etc.

 

[SmokinAces]

Finally got them in

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Finally got them in

Looking great!. Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised with the impact it makes on reducing CHT as well.

 

[fatbillybob]

Hey NeverSatisfied, Thanks for sharing all of this. I've been trying to figure out where to start on my 2019 GT Automatic, which must have some overheating issue. My first HPDE was at MSR Houston in May, and toward the ends of may later, faster sessions the car started limiting RPMs, shifting at around 5000 instead of 7500. Unfortunately, I didn't have my OBDII linked to my phone yet, having some trouble getting that to work correctly. So, I don't have data logged. I never saw any warnings, so I'm not sure what was overheating. I did check the gauges near the very end, and oil was at the end of 'green' and start of 'yellow'. The GT does not give oil temp in degrees, but y'all are saying it's not actually measured anyway. This thread has some good info, it shows the oil temperatures that each gauge color range corresponds to. This would mean my oil hit 280F max.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4889986/2

Whether it's actually measured or not seems unclear in the forums. I think an actual oil temp sensor doesn't cost much, so I don't know why they would skip it. So, I searched and found in Ford's 2019 OBD System Operation Summary document, p266, info on the engine oil temp (EOT) sensor, which does indeed measure the oil temp. After that, it goes on to explain the 'inferred' oil temp. What the computer does is compare measured to inferred, and if the discrepancy is too large, it sets a diagnostic code indicating the EOT sensor might have failed.

Now, my trans temp maxed out at 213F, and the gauge isn't 'yellow' until 260, and red at 270, so this does not seem to be the problem.

Differential? It looks like the PP Mustangs have an axle temp gauge that can be selected, but the GT does not. Does the GT even have a diff temp sensor? If it did, I should have seen a warning light, right?

So I'm still not sure what's causing it to shift at lower rpms, but it must be something overheating. It would be great if anyone can help me figure this out. In the meantime, I'll keep searching the forums, etc.

I suspect hot engine temps caused the limp to start cutting in. I think the ULV and 20wt engine oil are too light for track use unless driving pretty slow. I do not know much about trannies so for now I have a giant cooler on my a10 and we'll see how that works. If the trans gets too hot I'm going to LV. I deleted the 20wt long ago for 5-40 synthetic diesel oil. Diesel oils are cheaper and have more zinc for wear since I have no cats. I want the 40wt for higher viscosity at higher operating temps to simulate viscosity at freeways speeds. These cars need coolers for the track...big ones oil/diff/tranny. I will probably run the tranny with LV to get the viscosity at higher operating temps of racing to the level of the freeway speeds. I have had very good luck over 20 years of racing picking my oils based on this simple reasoning. I have used diesel oil in my racecars since 2012 when I bought my 1st ram diesel truck and discovered how cheap diesel oil can be. Many diesel oils are SN rated and can be used multi-fleet. I have never lost a motor because of my oil selection but I have saved a ton of money

 

[Flyhalf]

Fyi
According to ford performance
Coyote engine on track uses 5w50.
I swotched from my 0w40 to 5w50 after talking to them.

 

[fatbillybob]

Fyi
According to ford performance
Coyote engine on track uses 5w50.
I swotched from my 0w40 to 5w50 after talking to them.

Have you thought about using LV instead of ULV for the A10 which now you are on tranny #3? I just don't have enough track miles on my box due to CV19 racing shutdown. I have less than 1200miles on my entire chassis and 4 of those are races.

 

[TX-2019-Black_GT]

Have you thought about using LV instead of ULV for the A10 which now you are on tranny #3? I just don't have enough track miles on my box due to CV19 racing shutdown. I have less than 1200miles on my entire chassis and 4 of those are races.

Thanks for the suggestions fatbillybob and Flyhalf. 5W-50 sounds high, but if Ford Performance said so, so OK.

I know the higher viscosity at higher oil temps provides more protection, no doubt. However, I also think that higher viscosity fluids will get heated more due to the additional shear energy they absorb. I'd like to hear from an expert Engineer, but my thinking is that there's some trade-off in terms of how much heat goes into the oil (or diff fluid, or trans fluid) and the higher viscosity providing protection under extreme conditions, such as on the track. If you have plenty of cooling for the fluids, then they can be kept at reasonable temps and maintain viscosity. If you don't have adequate cooling, the higher viscosity protects from wear, but I also think the following could happen: your temps will go up, higher and faster, and cause reduced power limp-mode to kick in, the high temps will further lower the viscosity, and chemical degradation (breakdown) of the oil can occur much faster. On the other hand, 5W-30 + good oil cooling should maintain normal temps, and therefore maintain viscosity and avoid chemical breakdown of the oil.

I have the same question regarding 75W-85 diff fluid vs 75W-140 and how the differential heating is affected.

 

[fatbillybob]

Thanks for the suggestions fatbillybob and Flyhalf. 5W-50 sounds high, but if Ford Performance said so, so OK.

I know the higher viscosity at higher oil temps provides more protection, no doubt. However, I also think that higher viscosity fluids will get heated more due to the additional shear energy they absorb. I'd like to hear from an expert Engineer, but my thinking is that there's some trade-off in terms of how much heat goes into the oil (or diff fluid, or trans fluid) and the higher viscosity providing protection under extreme conditions, such as on the track. If you have plenty of cooling for the fluids, then they can be kept at reasonable temps and maintain viscosity. If you don't have adequate cooling, the higher viscosity protects from wear, but I also think the following could happen: your temps will go up, higher and faster, and cause reduced power limp-mode to kick in, the high temps will further lower the viscosity, and chemical degradation (breakdown) of the oil can occur much faster. On the other hand, 5W-30 + good oil cooling should maintain normal temps, and therefore maintain viscosity and avoid chemical breakdown of the oil.

I have the same question regarding 75W-85 diff fluid vs 75W-140 and how the differential heating is affected.

I think the bottom line is you have to keep it cool or in the targeted zone regardless of what wt oil it is. Your oil failure would also happen with a lighter oil over heated. But yes you need either a bigger cooler and or other tricks like changing viscosity. Don't forget is ford says on track use 5-50 they are also assuming everything else stock. We know that most of us here who are more serious run bigger coolers so I would not immediately run out and use 5-50 just because ford said so. If you over cool the 5-50 with bi coolers and miss the use vs. viscosity point you have problems. That's why I want to think it through. I know I should be relatively safe in ford's zone 5-20 for street and 5-50 for track. What makes sense? 5-20 at 220F is say wag 12cs. My oil under race conditions is 250F what oil is 12cs at 250F? Ahh 5-50. OK use 5-50. These are not real numbers or recs but just how I think about the process.

 

[Flyhalf]

I ran for 2 years 0w40 mobil1
15k miles. 245psi every cilinder.
no issue at all. However i changed oil every max 1000miles because the heavy duty.
I moved to 5w50 1month ago after a chat with the FP
The key is a friction reducer. I'M USING MOTORKOTE. probably one of the best out there. (Check PROJECTFARM video on YouTube)
5w50 +motorkote is if the car is mainly track.
5w40 +motorkote if 80% track and weekend runs
5w30 +motorkote if you see some light track use.

I personally would not use 5w20 especially if you leave in warm areas.
I think is too thin

Just remember if you go to a thicker oil do not rev at 7k rpm when is cold ( which you should not do anyway lol ! )

Hope this help.

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