What Happened to my America?

[IronG]

Now you're getting it, but you aren't quite there yet. You should go back to the history books and read up on an 805 year old document called the Magna Carta. Although more recently it was determined to be about the rights that English Barron's held, it was long belived to bestow certain personal freedoms and liberties to the common man, and the Framers borrowed from it heavily.

LOL....you are actually proving my point....thank you. Maybe you get it now on what I was saying the importance and meaning of the documents I cited....or do you still think they were not meant to provide opportunities and implied guarantees to everyone, not just a small group of individuals?

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[Briebee72]

Also, anyone else feel like this thread is now the same as the last several that devolve into political garbage? The OP even said leave politics out of it yet it just can't be helped. Furthermore, the actual weight of what is being said changes absolutely nothing. Venting is great and all but again, it was specifically asked not to come into this thread. Personally, politics to me is a waste of energy, one lowly lower middle class guy like myself can't change anything so why bother.

NO one reads, I asked to leave politics out of it and also to leave current events out of it but we see where everyone went. Most these people who thing everything is the governments fault and just spout political blah blah nonstop actually have no clue. I could say well red paint is awful and they would come back with well because of trade embargos in the middle east, we have a glut of pigment that the democrats/liberals/republicans can’t sell so they brain wash you into buying it so taxes can blah blah blah blah blah... they will blame everything on government. Socioeconomic statues and wealth inequality can be solved by getting off your ass and working. I see now hiring signs everywhere. But oh no people are too good to work at McDonalds or home depot. That’s again the persons fault not the governments. Governments don’t make you lazy, fat, sick, unhealthy, jobless, racist, a shit person. Those are all your choices and you can change any of them you want without the governments help. People need to stop blaming politics, blame themselves for their shitty lives.

 

[martinjlm]

Nancy Pelosi worked with the 2005 version of Robert C. Byrd, not the 1946 version. Read below what the 2005 version of Robert C. Byrd had to say about his own early years.

In 1946, Byrd wrote a letter to a Grand Wizard stating, "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation." However, when running for the United States House of Representatives in 1952, he announced "After about a year, I became disinterested, quit paying my dues, and dropped my membership in the organization. During the nine years that have followed, I have never been interested in the Klan." He said he had joined the Klan because he felt it offered excitement and was anti-communist.

Byrd later called joining the KKK "the greatest mistake I ever made. In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics but also warned, "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena." In his last autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a KKK member because he "was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision—a jejune and immature outlook—seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions." Byrd also said in 2005, "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."

 

[Sivi70980]

NO one reads, I asked to leave politics out of it and also to leave current events out of it but we see where everyone went. Most these people who thing everything is the governments fault and just spout political blah blah nonstop actually have no clue. I could say well red paint is awful and they would come back with well because of trade embargos in the middle east, we have a glut of pigment that the democrats/liberals/republicans can’t sell so they brain wash you into buying it so taxes can blah blah blah blah blah... they will blame everything on government. Socioeconomic statues and wealth inequality can be solved by getting off your ass and working. I see now hiring signs everywhere. But oh no people are too good to work at McDonalds or home depot. That’s again the persons fault not the governments. Governments don’t make you lazy, fat, sick, unhealthy, jobless, racist, a shit person. Those are all your choices and you can change any of them you want without the governments help. People need to stop blaming politics, blame themselves for their shitty lives.

I also like how posts like yours right now are just getting passed over while people have their own political discussions that we all get to read through. Points WILL me made and you WILL understand me damn it! lol

 

[watisthis]

You should really read what the straw man fallacy is. Not gonna bother arguing with you about this as you obviously can not be objective. Already said both sides are to blame for a lot of things yet you simply can not stop getting defensive.

What qualifies as being racist then? If you have black employees or a black bf/gf do you somehow get a pass? Oh, well I wrote a really nice book about a black family I'm free to use whatever language I want now. You just don't get it.

Then why bring it up? 'Oh, well he did some racist things 90 years ago but has been apologizing for it since and has done great things to combat racism but hey you know he still said it, I'm just saying we should forgive but hey here's him saying it nudge nudge.'

You and Hack were literally the first two to start pointing fingers and generalizing millions of people based off their political beliefs. What is wrong with you? No one wanted this to be political until you two made it that. Just leave your unwanted comments at the door.

 

[martinjlm]

I can remember when, not all that long ago, America was a dream a place you wanted to come to build a life, A place if you were born here was free and polite and if you traveled were respected because for being an American.

But over the last 10/15 years what the hell has happened? WE have basically lost all respect in the world, we are a joke, we are now the headlines around the world for crime, BS, racism, disrespect and basically we look like the bottom of the barrel where no one would go.

Younger generation has zero respect at all. Thinks its funny to insult people argue and be total jerks. All the boomer, karen mellienia BS is nothing but insulting to everyone.

People with their cell phones doing nothing but trying to start problems so they can film it and get on the news or you tube.

Mostly it is respect and the lack thereof. Neighbors who aggravate neighbors and are all so what screw them. People rude in public, people drive like jackasses and cause accidents, total disrespect for the president's office. Now mind you I said the office not the man. IM not a fan of his either but there use to be a time people still respected the office regaurless of how you felt about the man. now that's gone and you have reporters just trying to start shit people making jokes and just being totally disrespectful.

You can't call a woman a woman or you are sexist, if you don't call someone by their "identity" then you are a biases piece of crap. but most times how do you know what it is they want to be called? Hell I don't know. If you are white you are automatically a racist, if you are black you are automatically a criminal, if you are hispanic you are automatically a illegal....

Everyone wants to be special. no more man woman any more. Now there is cis man cis woman, transeual, bisexual, gay, lesbian, pansexual, neutral, binary, non binary and so on there are now 46 classifications for sexuallity! I mean seriously.

Headlined being made sensational for no reason. With over the top adjectives.. Fire rips through office... Car plows through crowd and Sales on cars are plunging at record paces..... you read and find out it was a trash can on fire, the car jumped a curb and hit a jogger and the car sales is about how they are down 2% at one dealer. Its just over the top and everyone is making things seems worse then they are.

I can go lay in a tanning bed at one place and then go next door and have to put on a hazmat suit to get a hamburger...

Everyone is scared of everything people are unfriendly as hell. I asked a guy the other day if the store was open as I got out of my car in the parking lot and i swear he acted like i was gonna murder him. This is actually more common, hell cant even ask a passerby a question any more.

These things were like this before trump so dont make this a political post its the people not the government. And people were like this before covid or any of the current things going on this week. So lets not blame those things.

Its people, people need to grow up and start acting right again. Im serious if i go out of the country and anyone asks Im from canada.

I use to be all pro America and yeah its a great place.. what the hell has happened. I want to feel this way again.

Trying to get back to the OP's original question. Here's my take on how we got to where we are:

We live in what will probably come to be known as The Information Revolution. Sorta like the Iron Age, the Renaissance, the Industrial Revolution, and the Space Age, but centered around the use (and misuse) of information. Some of the most profitable and highest market cap companies in the world have one product. Information. We all have near instant access to all types of information. Some of it true, some of it not so much. Used to be that I got my news by reading the paper in the morning, then checking in to one of three TV networks at 6:00 and again at 11:00. Now I get it be looking at my Apple Watch. And it is pushed to me, not pulled by me as was the case in the past.

So there is a lot of information. Of varying quality. Anybody with a web browser (ie...anybody) can in a matter of seconds find information to support or contradict any position placed forth. So people use information to support their particular point of view while actively rejecting anything that strays from that pov (Fake news!!!). Now, armed with "perfect" information, people on each side of any issue dig in and just continue to fortify their position by finding......more information. But only the information that fits their pov. Rinse, repeat, and notch it up a bit and you wind up with a vicious cycle resulting in people making vicious attacks on each other. One last ingredient...much of this is done psuedo-anonimously over the interwebs where everyone is the smartest, bravest, and most aggressive version of themselves. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

LOL....you are actually proving my point....thank you. Maybe you get it now on what I was saying the importance and meaning of the documents I cited....or do you still think they were not meant to provide opportunities and implied guarantees to everyone, not just a small group of individuals?

Some people, you just can't reach...

The 'guarantees' are not implied, they are explicitly stated and it doesn't provide or guarantee opportunities, implicitly or otherwise. It tries to guarantee an environment in which individuals can enjoy the benefits of the opportunities they may find without undue harassment or burden from the government.

The Constitution says you have the right to persue happiness, it doesn't say happiness will be afforded to you. There is a difference. Additionally, the guiding principal of the Constitution is that it doesn't give anyone anything. It attempts to protect the rights all citizens have innately. As such, saying that the Constitution provides anything is just wrong. If you can't wrap your head around that, I have nothing further to say on the subject.

 

[dn1984]

Growing up, the misguided rebel that I was, thought of cops as fascist pigs. But even then, whenever I did have an encounter with LE...I'll spare you the details...I stood still, shut up, and complied with basic requests. Now I'm seeing people throw explosives at cops! Unbelievable. Is this sort of a wave of people who just don't GAF anymore?

People are just stupid and looking for an excuse to be outraged. When I was growing up, I didn't hate cops, but I didn't love them either since they always harassed us young kids for skateboarding and then later for driving around at night (small town stuff). I was always taught that cops are not your friend, but respect their authority and don't do anything that could get you killed or land you in jail for something dumb. Our family was law abiding and I was still taught to keep my mouth shut except for the basics during a traffic stop or encounter with police. Lots of young people these days think they can mouth off to people in general and not expect any negative repercussions...until they get that inevitable reality check. And even then, as long as they're on video they are excited to go viral at the expense of their dignity and possibly freedom and even life and health.

 

[IronG]

Some people, you just can't reach...

The 'guarantees' are not implied, they are explicitly stated and it doesn't provide or guarantee opportunities, implicitly or otherwise. It tries to guarantee an environment in which individuals can enjoy the benefits of the opportunities they may find without undue harassment or burden from the government.

The Constitution says you have the right to persue happiness, it doesn't say happiness will be afforded to you. There is a difference. Additionally, the guiding principal of the Constitution is that it doesn't give anyone anything. It attempts to protect the rights all citizens have innately. As such, saying that the Constitution provides anything is just wrong. If you can't wrap your head around that, I have nothing further to say on the subject.

Ok that is your interpretation and that is fine. Let's just end it with agree to disagree :-)

 

[Briebee72]

People are just stupid and looking for an excuse to be outraged. When I was growing up, I didn't hate cops, but I didn't love them either since they always harassed us young kids for skateboarding and then later for driving around at night (small town stuff). I was always taught that cops are not your friend, but respect their authority and don't do anything that could get you killed or land you in jail for something dumb. Our family was law abiding and I was still taught to keep my mouth shut except for the basics during a traffic stop or encounter with police. Lots of young people these days think they can mouth off to people in general and not expect any negative repercussions...until they get that inevitable reality check. And even then, as long as they're on video they are excited to go viral at the expense of their dignity and possibly freedom and even life and health.

The mouthing off part.. that is one of Americas biggest poblems. People just run their mouth about anything and always hide behind oh its my freedom. Thats not really what that was intended to be fore. to just openly run your mouth toanyone for any reason to just be a jerk or to get a rise out of them. Then wen the people go off its always the same story what what I wasnt doing anything they just went off. Kinda the same thing with some of the cop videos always starting on the cop loosing his shit and never on what the people did to get the cop to that point.

Its along the lines of another pet peeve of mine with another trouble spot in America. School shootings. Tragic and serious problem no doubt, but every time it’s the same thing. Its the governments fault the parents fault the gun stores fault. they go on about the shooter the parents... laws blah blah blah blah. Not ever once to they actually address the real problem. The litle smart ass mouthed shits that hounded that kid every day, tripped him every day, called him names every day, made his life a living hell every day. teased, tortured hounded... till that kid snapped. Never once is charges brought up against the little bastards that caused the real issue and pushed it to that point. The real people who cause these problems are out there walking around free while the people who they pushed and pushed and pushed are the ones who take the fall. Same thing with these cop videos. 6 cops don’t chase you down throw you to the ground in front of your grandma and hold guns on your for no reason. Over reaction maybe yes but not for no reason. I dont care how big of a dick the cop is hes not gonna just pull you over for running a stop sign run up to your car and put a glock in your face screaming you ran a stop sign mother fer. You did something to get him there. Again people.. People are asshats... no government needed. One of our greatest things is also one of our greatest weaknesses, Freedom. Too many people push it.

 

[Briebee72]

Some people, you just can't reach...

The 'guarantees' are not implied, they are explicitly stated and it doesn't provide or guarantee opportunities, implicitly or otherwise. It tries to guarantee an environment in which individuals can enjoy the benefits of the opportunities they may find without undue harassment or burden from the government.

The Constitution says you have the right to persue happiness, it doesn't say happiness will be afforded to you. There is a difference. Additionally, the guiding principal of the Constitution is that it doesn't give anyone anything. It attempts to protect the rights all citizens have innately. As such, saying that the Constitution provides anything is just wrong. If you can't wrap your head around that, I have nothing further to say on the subject.

@IronG IM gonna have to agree with @2018OFPP1?2 here.

My idea of what the founders were wanting was to escape persecution for their beliefs and desires for their own way of living. They wrote the constitution and bill of rights and so on not to give anyone person anything of an material value but to say hey you are free to work, worship and live how you see fit you can have a house and you can walk out side and eat the blue berries you planted but no one is gonna give you the blueberries or the house but instead gonna give you an environment where you can persue those wishes without someone else telling you what you can or cant do to a moral extent.

You and I were given the blank canvas to paint our own dream but the issue is people want the Mona lisa handed to them finished and without having to pick up the brush.

 

[Caballus]

The mouthing off part.. that is one of Americas biggest poblems. People just run their mouth about anything and always hide behind oh its my freedom. Thats not really what that was intended to be fore. to just openly run your mouth toanyone for any reason to just be a jerk or to get a rise out of them. Then wen the people go off its always the same story what what I wasnt doing anything they just went off. Kinda the same thing with some of the cop videos always starting on the cop loosing his shit and never on what the people did to get the cop to that point.

Its along the lines of another pet peeve of mine with another trouble spot in America. School shootings. Tragic and serious problem no doubt, but every time it’s the same thing. Its the governments fault the parents fault the gun stores fault. they go on about the shooter the parents... laws blah blah blah blah. Not ever once to they actually address the real problem. The litle smart ass mouthed shits that hounded that kid every day, tripped him every day, called him names every day, made his life a living hell every day. teased, tortured hounded... till that kid snapped. Never once is charges brought up against the little bastards that caused the real issue and pushed it to that point. The real people who cause these problems are out there walking around free while the people who they pushed and pushed and pushed are the ones who take the fall. Same thing with these cop videos. 6 cops don’t chase you down throw you to the ground in front of your grandma and hold guns on your for no reason. Over reaction maybe yes but not for no reason. I dont care how big of a dick the cop is hes not gonna just pull you over for running a stop sign run up to your car and put a glock in your face screaming you ran a stop sign mother fer. You did something to get him there. Again people.. People are asshats... no government needed. One of our greatest things is also one of our greatest weaknesses, Freedom. Too many people push it.

Of course, there always two sides, but this is like blaming the girl in hot pants for getting raped. When a cop is doing his job, citizens should cooperate and have no excuse for talking back. However, American citizens also have rights and protections that the government, and those who police on behalf of the government, must observe. To say that no one's rights are ever violated is simply false. To say that a mouthy kid, or even a bully is to be blamed for school shootings is beyond absurd. Freedom is not a weakness. Failure to respect all aspects of freedom is the weakness; that is the right to exercise freedom and the responsibility to protect the freedom of others.

 

[Briebee72]

Of course, there always two sides, but this is like blaming the girl in hot pants for getting raped.

Not even really the same as my point. A girl walking by in hot pants is not the same as a aledged criminal or a school shooting

To say that a mouthy kid, or even a bully is to be blamed for school shootings is beyond absurd

How is it adsurd? Have you been bullied? Kids are F'in evil man. They will gang up and relentlessly hound , pick, tease and even physically abuse other kids untill the kids either take their own life or think of taking someone elses cause they cant handle it any more. You absolutly can blame bullying for school shootings. aaaaandd we are back to people are dicks and the cause of all the problems not the government

 

[Caballus]

Not even really the same as my point. A girl walking by in hot pants is not the same as a aledged criminal or a shoot shooting

How is it adsurd? Have you been bullied? Kids are F'in evil man. They will gang up and relentlessly hound , pick, tease and even physically abuse other kids untill the kids either take their own life or think of taking someone elses cause they cant handle it any more. You absolutly can blame bullying for school shootings. aaaaandd we are back to people are dicks. and he cause of all the problems not the government

It is the same point; exactly the same point.

Anyone who says they have never been bullied is a liar. Bullying is wrong, but being bullied does not and never will justify killing, nor does it justify killing children in a school. What I have also done is had plenty of opportunities to kill unjustifiably. Remember every single one clearly--opted not to each time, not for fear of punishment, but because of a clear understanding of responsibility and right vs. wrong. You are wrong.

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