Racing Brake 2020 GT500 Carbon Ceramic Brake Group Buy

[Twisted O CFTP]

Daytona is hard on the brakes. I go through almost two sets of pads in a 3 day weekend.

Tomster I have been to daytona 7 times and PDG might not go this year due to them wanting 100000 for the weekend like last year I like Daytona and the 500 top end will really shine let me know when we can sign up so I can reserve my spot after last weekend at sebring the 500 dominated the track in speed there wasnt any competition for how hard the 500 pulls in acceleration Im learning the limits of the slower turns you have to be patient coming out of apex which is ok since the power is there and you can pass once begin to accelerate at daytona the 500 will shine and might lap the group

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[16Kobra]

I have not been to the firm I just found out about the track when I got the 500 Im all down to go I live in the orlando area. Im all in let me know when your going If I like the track I might get a yearly pass I have watched the videos of the track looks cool thanks for the invite keep me posted

I think you told me you dont do FB. If you want to be involved with us locally, we have a group Text of the guys who track together. PM you number again to me if you want to be added.

 

[16Kobra]

Tomster I have been to daytona 7 times and PDG might not go this year due to them wanting 100000 for the weekend like last year I like Daytona and the 500 top end will really shine let me know when we can sign up so I can reserve my spot after last weekend at sebring the 500 dominated the track in speed there wasnt any competition for how hard the 500 pulls in acceleration Im learning the limits of the slower turns you have to be patient coming out of apex which is ok since the power is there and you can pass once begin to accelerate at daytona the 500 will shine and might lap the group

Alan;

@Tomster and I do Daytona with Audi Club of Ohio. Usually, the 1st weekend of December. Its costly but not the price you posted above. Look at their website.

Really hope to see you around soon. You say Orlando but your profile says Seminole, isn't that more Tampa than Orlando?

 

[Tomster]

Tomster I have been to daytona 7 times and PDG might not go this year due to them wanting 100000 for the weekend like last year I like Daytona and the 500 top end will really shine let me know when we can sign up so I can reserve my spot after last weekend at sebring the 500 dominated the track in speed there wasnt any competition for how hard the 500 pulls in acceleration Im learning the limits of the slower turns you have to be patient coming out of apex which is ok since the power is there and you can pass once begin to accelerate at daytona the 500 will shine and might lap the group

I looked at motorsportreg.com yesterday. There are 3 events open to the public in the fall/winter. October has Chin motorsports, November has the charity run, and December has the Audi club.

 

[Twisted O CFTP]

Alan;

@Tomster and I do Daytona with Audi Club of Ohio. Usually, the 1st weekend of December. Its costly but not the price you posted above. Look at their website.

Really hope to see you around soon. You say Orlando but your profile says Seminole, isn't that more Tampa than Orlando?

Seminole county fl is orlando im 12 miles from downtown orlando ill update the profile

 

[kilobravo]

Alan: You might wanna delete that post and PM him instead to keep your number out of the fray.

 

[Epiphany]

The telephone scambots have already locked it in. Expect a call about a warranty in 3, 2,...

 

[Tomster]

Follow up

The telephone scambots have already locked it in. Expect a call about a warranty in 3, 2,...

Yea really. Who does that

 

[Epiphany]

I get at least three calls a day. I'm at the point now where I just press one and tell whoever the trash is on the other end of the line that I want my free tickets to Disney Land NOW.

<CLICK>

They hang up every time. But they won't stop calling.

 

[Tomster]

Alan: You might wanna delete that post and PM him instead to keep your number out of the fray.

I reported it, so maybe the mods will help out.

Just trying to help

 

[50 Deep]

Its a shame you couldn't come to daytona last year. You'd understand.

Dude, I wanted too. I hoped this year would
be different, but it’s not looking that way.

Good thing is the RB setups have shipped so we should have some data/driving experiences soon. I plan to install mine next week, and will setup a track day to get them properly broken in. Also have a few local GT500’s I can do some comparison testing against.

Unless RB repurposes CCB & CCM rotors from other applications (likely -nothing wrong with that), the inconsistency of the usage of CCB and CCM is concerning because they are different technologies that perform differently.

A big thing that post is missing is Thermal Capacity -which is the reason Carbon Ceramic brakes are larger than iron brakes in the same application. Let's look at some examples:

991 GT3 Iron: 380 mm & 380 mm
991 GT3 PCCB: 410 mm & 390 mm - 8% & 3% larger

MP4 12C Iron: 370 mm & 350 mm
MP4 12C CC: 394 mm & 380 mm - 7% & 9% larger

AMG GT-S Iron: 390 mm & 360 mm
AMG GT-S CC: 401 mm & 360 mm - 3% & same

F430 Iron: 330 mm
F430 CCM: 380 mm & 350 mm - 15% & 6% larger

612 Iron: 345 mm & 330 mm
612 CC: 380 mm & 350 mm - 10% & 6% larger

458 & 488 GTB: 398 mm / 360 mm


SO, if the GT500's 16.5" (420 mm) iron rotor had a similar 7% increase in diameter, that would = 448 mm or 17.65" rotor

But let's go with the AMG GT's 3% increase. That would still = 433 mm, or a 17" rotor.

Neither of these are really possible without going to 21-22" wheels.

The GT500's 16.5" rotors are already some of the biggest out there and can stop the car lap after lap on end with stock street brake pads. That was the goal for the project and it was definitely accomplished.

It's quite documented and well known that people who track their cars remove CC rotors and replace them with iron. Not only is it less expensive, but the iron rotors have more thermal capacity and can use far more aggressive pad compounds:

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-de...ook-disc-pair-front-398x36mm-mercedes-amg-gts

I'm actually in favor of CC brakes. They're lighter for unsprung weight, improve steering feel and handling. They are also far better for street use than iron from a cost perspective. However for track-focused cars, they are NOT cost effective and you'll be paying a premium for the reduced weight. But i'm all for it. Many are not. However, carbon wheels do far more than carbon brakes in this department:

https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-revolution-carbon-fiber-wheels/

I'm always trying to help the community and enthusiasts. I spend more time on here and FB than I should trying to help people. Mostly to answer misconceptions and let them know they don't need to spend money on what they're trying to accomplish; and they should put that money towards more track days and just have fun. Many try to push an unnecessary 'need' to generate a sale (not claiming that you are, because I don't recall you claiming these will solve a braking deficiency).

However, it's not up to ME to determine if these brakes are good on my own dollar. It'll cost at least $10K in 4-5 sets of tires alone, not including fuel, track rental, track insurance, etc... to do a proper brake test. I don't see a reason to spend that kind of money to test someone else's product for them to have more credibility.


That's not really a significant concern from a MFG like Brembo or Surface Transforms. If RB is using a different (Chinese?) supplier, and if they aren't tested to the same levels of Brembo or ST, then there is legitimate concern of those brakes. It's hard to say if they'll crack, explode, or be fine, but composite brakes are quite complex and they take months to make properly. It's not something you can easily copy and produce like an iron rotor. If you use factory CCB rotors, the main concern would be fade.

Those companies aren't making carbon ceramic brakes. If someone was putting a set of Wilwood brakes on their GT500 for road course use, I would probably also express similar concerns, as I have done with people putting smaller AP calipers on their GT350s.

I'm not sure i'd claim they are 'established' Carbon Ceramic manufacturers, but rather have made kits adapting existing rotors for new applications.

For the GT350 or most cars, using an OEM Brembo CC rotor isn't a huge risk and would probably be fine for 99.5% of the owner who track them. However, upon learning about a "new/custom" unproven rotor, there is a risk since Carbon Ceramic rotors are not simple devices. Neither are carbon wheels.

Putting a CC on a GT500 is also a risk, and then using an unproven "new" CC rotor on a GT500 increases that risk even further. -All to solve a problem that doesn't exist. I get the need for wanting to make the car lighter, and I've already stated for street use and for most people on track, it MIGHT/probably will be fine. But those are legitimate concerns.

I can see your point of view, and definitely valuable. However, RB’s components have no history of concern on its current GT350 owners cars, GTR, or any other make. No failures. No accidents caused. No races lost. They have a track record of performance where it counts, on track.

If there is any standardized form of testing and certification set forth by the Society Of Automotive Engineers, SEMA, or other sanctioned body that has not been met by RB then I’m all for that testing process. But to my knowledge, there isn’t one. And so it comes down to two smart guys discussing the best theory/methodology to produce a component.

My only issue here is eyeballing a few pictures online and saying it’s unsafe. I just don’t get how that can stand without other data from the actual parts to your point. Nevertheless, my keys and a beer are always available when you end up back on the west coast. But you don’t get the beer until after you get done driving the car.

I have the full carbon fiber track pack 500 with carbon wheels Im down and interested in test and Billy is highly respected and knowledgeable along with one of the lead developers of the 500 If the development and is accurate I would let Billy take my cftp 500 at sebring or daytona to test the brakes since he already knows the limits of the oem rotors I already did a track day at sebring so I understand the braking limits already regardless of the weight of the 500 it brakes extremely hard and firm As mentioned for me it wouldn't be about having better braking the 500 already has that it would be the unsprung weight and better handling if thats what the rotors can do if the handling is better in turn then you have developed something thats worth the bang for the buck As mentioned if billy wants to drive my 500 he is more then welcome for the test we both live in Florida I'm in the orlando area and he is about 2 hrs away we could have rare fab do the install Will is one of the best

This is why I love the Mustang community. Enthusiasts ready to toss the keys to their 100k car to a race car driver to see what it can do.

Once my parts are on I will hit up @BillyJRacing to see what kind of data I can gather at my level.

When I end up out that way I will let you know.
Thanks man!

 

[BillyJRacing]

I can see your point of view, and definitely valuable. However, RB’s components have no history of concern on its current GT350 owners cars, GTR, or any other make. No failures. No accidents caused. No races lost. They have a track record of performance where it counts, on track.

If there is any standardized form of testing and certification set forth by the Society Of Automotive Engineers, SEMA, or other sanctioned body that has not been met by RB then I’m all for that testing process. But to my knowledge, there isn’t one. And so it comes down to two smart guys discussing the best theory/methodology to produce a component.

My only issue here is eyeballing a few pictures online and saying it’s unsafe. I just don’t get how that can stand without other data from the actual parts to your point. Nevertheless, my keys and a beer are always available when you end up back on the west coast. But you don’t get the beer until after you get done driving the car.

Where did I ever claim they were 'unsafe'? If you re-read my quote, I said "But brakes are a safety device and should be viewed and treated as such.

You've thrown that word around a lot and misinterpreted my comments of uncertainty, concern, and (relatively) 'higher risk' as being 'unsafe'. A lot can be misinterpreted though text but please note the difference since I've never trashed this product.

 

[Tomster]

This is why I love the Mustang community. Enthusiasts ready to toss the keys to their 100k car to a race car driver to see what it can do.

Once my parts are on I will hit up @BillyJRacing to see what kind of data I can gather at my level.

When I end up out that way I will let you know.
Thanks man!

I did exactly that. It was refreshing to see what someone like Billy could do with a car that he had developed. I laughed out loud watching him do so comfortably with what took me effort.

May I suggest everyone take his advice and proceed with some degree of caution. I know I'd like to lighten the CFTP significantly, but when the guy who developed the car says that more data is needed...... well, I have to believe him.

There is no margin for error when max braking approaching a turn with a wall on the other side of it. The OEM brakes give me confidence because they have been tested to failure and it is a known quantity.

I think it would be great to see someone credible do proper testing of these carbon brakes. Racing brakes ought to pony up the money to do full on testing. Tires, rotors, pads, and the car. Do all that, and I'd be all about turning a 4k CFTP into a 3800# track machine. (Battery, hood, lid, etc).

 

[Twisted O CFTP]

Alan: You might wanna delete that post and PM him instead to keep your number out of the fray.[/QUOTE
Hey thanks

I reported it, so maybe the mods will help out.

Just trying to help

hey thanks first pm never looked for it before

 

[Twisted O CFTP]

I did exactly that. It was refreshing to see what someone like Billy could do with a car that he had developed. I laughed out loud watching him do so comfortably with what took me effort.

May I suggest everyone take his advice and proceed with some degree of caution. I know I'd like to lighten the CFTP significantly, but when the guy who developed the car says that more data is needed...... well, I have to believe him.

There is no margin for error when max braking approaching a turn with a wall on the other side of it. The OEM brakes give me confidence because they have been tested to failure and it is a known quantity.

I think it would be great to see someone credible do proper testing of these carbon brakes. Racing brakes ought to pony up the money to do full on testing. Tires, rotors, pads, and the car. Do all that, and I'd be all about turning a 4k CFTP into a 3800# track machine. (Battery, hood, lid, etc).

Tom I feel the same way its awesome to have Billys opinion and consider him a true and reliable source He is factual and knowledgeable I remember the detail he had about the carbon wheels which was very informative and the details about the car with lethal performance was outstanding. That being said your idea of mods is spot on I like the hood idea all though the down side is losing the hydraulic strut the 500 has which looks awesome however its a cool mod

As far as RB carbon rotors its an awesome idea and Im extremely interested if I can feel difference in handling with the lighter rotating mass but agree with Billy all the way in two topics
The new 500 has outstanding brakes I felt this first hand at sebring last weekend never got any fade there so good in fact you find yourself braking way to early until you understand the limits
The idea of the carbon rotors are awesome but as Billy said need to be tested as with any racing part to me its not what its done for other cars but what it does for the 500 Billys input means alot and is really nice for him to reply we are lucky that he shares his knowledge with us
So the bottom line is lets get a full test and a review whats one set of rotors and pads if the product is that good rb will have many buyers including myself

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