What Happened to my America?

[2018OFPP1?2]

This is an interesting thread. The intent of the framers of the DoI and Constitution (mainly Madison, Jefferson and Franklin) was to create a society that was fair for all in providing opportunities to basically have a good life. They knew there was no perfect way to do this, but tried to put together some guidelines and guardrails to help foster it. Every generation and government that has come after those documents were made and ratified, had their own interpretations on what the current society wanted out of them. Yes, they have been used for good and also manipulated for ones own agenda often ending in negative results. The framers knew this would happen, but as long as the original documents existed, anyone could go back and try again. If you would actually take some time and read them (and others like the bill of rights) you will not see anywhere were there is a no firm guarantees that you will succeed with the opportunities you have nor the amount of opportunities you get. Just the guarantee that you will have them. I think no one will argue that not everyone works hard and many let opportunities slip by, because they have to do some work (many times a lot of hard work) to achieve the results. This is one of several reasons why there is (and always has been even before the US) a gap between the haves and have nots. This gap will always be there so long as you have a portion of your society that don't want to work hard. I will say that African Americans have had a tougher road for sure, but today it is far easier to break through than it was 50 years ago and astonishingly better than 200 years ago. Certainly more work to be done and maybe this current event is another in a series of wake up calls to further move that needle. I also think the Pandemic will actually help this more than if it had happened this time last year or somewhere in the future. Timing is everything. I guess my long winded point is that this country started an experiment which is still ongoing and we have weathered many storms that could have ended it. We still keep going and getting stronger and closer to what the framers envisioned. if you give up now and throw in the towel you are just showing what the monarchy of that time predicted during the revolution of what would happen...it would fail. The good news is that out of all this chaos and the dust has settled, we will still be the USA, but changed and in some way big or small better than we were before. This is not the end, just another chapter that people hundreds of years from now will marvel at and wonder at just how strong we all were to get through it. We all can get through this and have to stay strong and emphasis the good, the changes we need to make to be better and to halt as peacefully as possible (use of force when absolutely necessary) the minority taking advantage and causing the most destruction and negativity.

Anyway my 2 cents.

While I basically appreciate what you are trying to say, the Constitution doesn't guarantee, or try to guarantee, opportunities for any one. What it tries to guarantee is that you will have the freedom to to enjoy the fruits of your labor without undue hardship or interference from the government. It lost on both those counts, IMO, as our current government is too large and far reaching.

Anyway, my main point is, no one, including the government, owes you success or financial security, or an opportunity for those things.

People need to suck it up, and take responsibility for their own lives.

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[Bikeman315]

Anyway, my main point is, no one, including the government, owes you success or financial security, or an opportunity for those things.

People need to suck it up, and take responsibility for their own lives.

 

[Flimflamman]

(I'd love to see some proof of that. And don't give me the economy BS, give me something specific pertaining to Black Americans).

You know I'm no fan of either side. However, Trump has made some strides with criminal justice reform. LONG ways to go but its something.

While I basically appreciate what you are trying to say, the Constitution doesn't guarantee, or try to guarantee, opportunities for any one. What it tries to guarantee is that you will have the freedom to to enjoy the fruits of your labor without undue hardship or interference from the government. It lost on both those counts, IMO, as our current government is too large and far reaching.

Anyway, my main point is, no one, including the government, owes you success or financial security, or an opportunity for those things.

People need to suck it up, and take responsibility for their own lives.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. Personal responsibility. Most people have that opportunity, yet fail to utilize it.

Briebee72 said: Why is it everyone blames politics?

Because everyone has an ax to grind and politics makes it easy. Here are the states with the biggest outbreaks. Now the cities are Democratic. This is due largely to large populations and a diverse racial, ethnic and religious makeup. But the States. Might want to look again Bill before blaming Democrats. Where are the Republican governors and why aren't they doing anything. Oh right, they are blaming the Democrats too.

City Governor Mayor
Atlanta Republican Democrat

The Governor of Georgia has not been running around blaming Democrats. Actually, it was quite the opposite when we first started to open up. Democrats were up in arms, including the Mayor of Atlanta. It's been pretty quiet lately though... because so far it has been a success. Hopefully, it continues to be successful. Not because of Kemp, but because it can help show the rest of the country that we can get back to normalcy quicker than some people think.

 

[watisthis]

I see this thread has turned into stone-throwing. Some people always with political finger-pointing like this doesn't cut both ways. Even better when they're generalizing millions of people without any supporting evidence.

 

[Interceptor]

I see this thread has turned into stone-throwing. Some people always with political finger-pointing like this doesn't cut both ways. Even better when they're generalizing millions of people without any supporting evidence.

????? So you watch CNN ? I think most post have educated answers on both sides.

 

[Flimflamman]

Like or not... politics is part of the answer to "What happened to my (our) America".

Other parts are personal responsibility (or lack thereof), lack of respect, and a small portion of people that make poor decisions that end up having profound effects on the rest of us.

It is up to the rest of us to move forward with a positive attitude and meaningful societal adjustments to be successful. There will never be a one-size fits all solution.

Compromise is key. Something our leaders tend to suck at.

 

[watisthis]

????? So you watch CNN ?

Excuse me, what?

I think most post have educated answers on both sides.

I would agree most do, but answers like '70 years of libtard policies did this' and 'libtards are the KKK' are most certainly not educated answers. Generalizations and hatred aren't going to help get people's points across.

 

[IPOGT]

I'll tell you what happened--God has been removed from most of society. God has been removed from classrooms. More than ever, a lot of people think God doesn't exist. Without the fear (awesome respect) of God, society breaks down into chaos. Remember the great Roman empire? It's gone because God was tossed way like a piece of trash.

The classic family structure (Mother, Father, children) is getting rarer. People are focusing more on feelings rather than facts. People blaming others for their own failures. People go to so-called "experts" for help, instead of reading, understanding (key point here), and obeying the Bible.



It's astounding when someone makes seemingly sincere, serious observations that seem to be the exact opposite of the truth.

In fact, the loss of Truth (capital "T") is a serious, serious, serious ass problem.

We have a ever growing numbers of people who think that humans never landed on the moon, think the planet is flat, who think COVID is a hoax. We have plenty of people, probably even on this forum, who can't do the math well enough to see how unlocking millions of tons of carbon from the ground and putting it back into the atmosphere measurably and predictably makes the climate warmer.

These are usually the same people who are brainwashed by a political interest to believe the wrong thing...who want to pay less taxes and destroy public education...all to keep the masses stupid and preserve the social hierarchy with white men kneeling on everyone else's throats.

Sadly, it's working.


It's ironic how some claim "truth" when it is actually a bunch of lies, especially when perpetuated by the liberal media. The climate changes every hour of every day. Predictions of future climate change "damage" have been going on for over a hundred years, and NONE have come true. I know of someone who has been working in a national climate laboratory for close to 30 years. This person also has a PhD in meteorology. He said there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever of mankind causing "global warming."

It's also ironic that some want to pay MORE taxes to the government. Why would anyone want to give them more of your paycheck? The government isn't known for efficiency. The government also isn't responsible for taking care of you.

By the way, it was only ONE white man who knelt on that person's throat, and he should be in jail.

I would add that the other officers who stood there and let that occur are almost as liable.
Regardless of whether or not Mr. Floyd was known to law enforcement, he was apparently properly restrained and quickly should have been transported to his destination.
Why the leaning on the man's neck for 8 mins, I have no idea. Good way to help induce some underlying condition to cause or contribute to a death if not directly be the named cause itself. Dumb move.
That's not a race issue. It is a right and wrong issue. If people could just comprehend that fact the world would be a whole lot better place and none of this would have happened in the first place.
The investigation in the death of someone in police custody post apprehension is one of the most important undertakings a law enforcement agency could endeavour to do well, as the confidence of the people you serve is at stake.

 

[IPOGT]

I don't think any of them drive Mustangs either.

 

[ice445]

Personally, I think the destruction of the nuclear family is a root cause. So many people today have anger and hatred in their hearts because of dysfunctional or absent parents. It's cyclical. How can we expect people to raise psychologically healthy children when they were never shown how? Single motherhood isn't just considered normal these days, it's almost encouraged. The black community was hit especially hard by this issue and still is today.

But beyond that, the information stream we're exposed to is heavily shaped. Social media has been designed the way it is to trap people in what is essentially an information "bubble", where you're only exposed to things that you agree with and people who agree with you. This is the biggest problem. It's created several echo chambers and magnifies the mistakes of other groups while minimizing the mistakes of the self group. It's tribalism times 100. It makes having intelligent discourse and actually solving problems in something as complex as modern society almost impossible. You see this at the national level pretty much constantly. It's also created this weird paradox where people don't vote because they assume their needs have already been taken care of because of how information is delivered to them via social media and the mainstream media. The 2016 election saw something like a 43% turnout which is PATHETIC. This exact situation is also why people seem to constantly argue against their own best interests, because they are told it's bad for them. The complexities of modern living pretty much ensure people don't figure out this information whirlpool that they're stuck in. It makes most people pawns of those with agendas. Which let's face it, the main agenda is making loads of money off the backs of everyone. The "unrest" is magnified and seems worse than it really is because if we're fighting each other then we won't notice all our money being siphoned out of our country into offshore accounts.

 

[Briebee72]

@bjstang IM sorry in post number 69 you quoted yourself and then argued with yourself. sigh.....

 

[IPOGT]

Personally, I think the destruction of the nuclear family is a root cause. So many people today have anger and hatred in their hearts because of dysfunctional or absent parents. It's cyclical. How can we expect people to raise psychologically healthy children when they were never shown how? Single motherhood isn't just considered normal these days, it's almost encouraged. The black community was hit especially hard by this issue and still is today.

But beyond that, the information stream we're exposed to is heavily shaped. Social media has been designed the way it is to trap people in what is essentially an information "bubble", where you're only exposed to things that you agree with and people who agree with you. This is the biggest problem. It's created several echo chambers and magnifies the mistakes of other groups while minimizing the mistakes of the self group. It's tribalism times 100. It makes having intelligent discourse and actually solving problems in something as complex as modern society almost impossible. You see this at the national level pretty much constantly. It's also created this weird paradox where people don't vote because they assume their needs have already been taken care of because of how information is delivered to them via social media and the mainstream media. The 2016 election saw something like a 43% turnout which is PATHETIC. This exact situation is also why people seem to constantly argue against their own best interests, because they are told it's bad for them. The complexities of modern living pretty much ensure people don't figure out this information whirlpool that they're stuck in. It makes most people pawns of those with agendas. Which let's face it, the main agenda is making loads of money off the backs of everyone. The "unrest" is magnified and seems worse than it really is because if we're fighting each other then we won't notice all our money being siphoned out of our country into offshore accounts.

I will say that for the most part we have some of the most intelligent and just as importantly civil people right here, with in many cases opposing views, exchanging ideas productively.
Why are we paying them (congress) to do what we're doing here? Quite well in fact, actually.
They simply cannot do what we are doing right now. Sad.
So, in the end, it's a Ford Mustang that brings reasonable people from everywhere to fix our system.

 

[IronG]

While I basically appreciate what you are trying to say, the Constitution doesn't guarantee, or try to guarantee, opportunities for any one. What it tries to guarantee is that you will have the freedom to to enjoy the fruits of your labor without undue hardship or interference from the government. It lost on both those counts, IMO, as our current government is too large and far reaching.

Anyway, my main point is, no one, including the government, owes you success or financial security, or an opportunity for those things.

People need to suck it up, and take responsibility for their own lives.

Thanks, but not sure you have read the Constitution...at least of the United States version. I never said that anyone is guaranteed success in any opportunity afford to them. I actually said the framers wrote it to guarantee that everyone has an opportunity. I also said that not everyone takes advantage of them. Also some folks don't get as many as others (sort of what surrounds the current protests (sparked by the death of a human being).

I do agree with you that if you are lazy or complacent etc, and you complain all the time about people who did work hard and became successful (not necessarily rich), then yeah "suck it up".

Take a few minutes and look through the entire Constitution, it may make you think again of what that document is about and how it ties into the protests you see currently.

One last thought, this type of "debate" is exactly what the Madison and Jefferson et al wanted.

 

[ice445]

I will say that for the most part we have some of the most intelligent and just as importantly civil people right here, with in many cases opposing views, exchanging ideas productively.
Why are we paying them (congress) to do what we're doing here? Quite well in fact, actually.
They simply cannot do what we are doing right now. Sad.
So, in the end, it's a Ford Mustang that brings reasonable people from everywhere to fix our system.

Congress has shown time and time again they don't have the interests of the people in mind, but rather the corporations that give them "contributions" behind the scenes.

 

[IronG]

Not sure you read what I wrote (or any of the documents I cited) either, but in my reply to theirs I did agree with the suck it up comment in certain circumstances.

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