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Mustang wheels misalignment left and right

akmon

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Good night from Spain. Many health and force to defeat this disease.

I´m planning to change the wheels of my 2016 Mustang GT. To calculate the best offset I measured the fender clearance from the rim lip using a wire with a weight, sticked to the outer fender.
My surprise came when I measured the other side, to confirm, and there is a difference. About 5-6 mm. On the driver side, the wheels are 5- 6 mm outer than on the right side!
To ensure that it is not problem of the wheels, I measured the distance from the disc brake to the wire, but the difference remains from one side to the other.
So my questions are:
Is this normal on a Mustang to find a difference of a wheel goes outer than in the other side?

Is it easy to fix this misalignment? My car dind´t have an accident. Maybe a camber adjust, or something similar? How can I know if the problem is the whole chasis itself? I´ve discovered Steeda sells IRS subframe alignment kit, but don´t know if this is the problem to solve or is another thing. https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-irs-subframe-alignment-kit-2015-all-555-4438.html

My worry is if I buy new wheels and want to be flush, the other side will poke out a bit. When the wheel is inwards you don´t see the mistake, but with the new set you see the difference.
I attach a picture with the different measurements (5-6 mm difference).

Jb7Q0Yf.jpg
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showbbq

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Seems like it can be aligned properly. Most people ask fitment questions by just posting the wheel specs.

What was the temperature? Tire pressure? Pollen count? :)
 

Byronj

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Your body panels could be different also. All panels have adjustments to make sure it lines up on the exterior for a clean look. I think you might be over thinking this. Go to your alignment shop and tell them what you want.
 
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akmon

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Seems like it can be aligned properly. Most people ask fitment questions by just posting the wheel specs.

What was the temperature? Tire pressure? Pollen count? :)
Is necessary any aditional data? What can I measure more? It is parked on a flat surface, same tyre pressure. And pollen is 953 grains/m3 :)


Your body panels could be different also. All panels have adjustments to make sure it lines up on the exterior for a clean look. I think you might be over thinking this. Go to your alignment shop and tell them what you want.
Didn´t know the panels can be fitted, I mean as the wheel wells belong to the main bodywork, didn´t know it can be adjusted. I´ll ask to the body shop for this issue.

So as I can read, it is worth it not to touch the subchasis etc.
 

Byronj

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Didn´t know the panels can be fitted, I mean as the wheel wells belong to the main bodywork, didn´t know it can be adjusted. I´ll ask to the body shop for this issue.

So as I can read, it is worth it not to touch the subchasis etc.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t start messing with it. My buddy has a GT350 that had the same issues as you’re describing. He took it to multiple Ford shops, Cortex racing and a few other shops and it checked out fine. He drove mine and his back to back and they felt the same.
 

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akmon

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Didn´t know the panels can be fitted, I mean as the wheel wells belong to the main bodywork, didn´t know it can be adjusted. I´ll ask to the body shop for this issue.

So as I can read, it is worth it not to touch the subchasis etc.
I wouldn’t start messing with it. My buddy has a GT350 that had the same issues as you’re describing. He took it to multiple Ford shops, Cortex racing and a few other shops and it checked out fine. He drove mine and his back to back and they felt the same.[/QUOTE]
Ok thank you for the advice. Im not worried about strange behaviour. My only concern is that the driver wheel would poke out or rub a bit compared to the right side with the new wheels and ETS. Although the difference is still in front, I dont mind so much because the wheels are still inwards.
Maybe the easiest solution is going for a ET39 or 40, knowing that your friend tried several times with no success.
 

Byronj

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I wouldn’t start messing with it. My buddy has a GT350 that had the same issues as you’re describing. He took it to multiple Ford shops, Cortex racing and a few other shops and it checked out fine. He drove mine and his back to back and they felt the same.
Ok thank you for the advice. Im not worried about strange behaviour. My only concern is that the driver wheel would poke out or rub a bit compared to the right side with the new wheels and ETS. Although the difference is still in front, I dont mind so much because the wheels are still inwards.
Maybe the easiest solution is going for a ET39 or 40, knowing that your friend tried several times with no success.[/QUOTE]


good luck, I hope it’s nothing. But please keep us posted on the outcome
 
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akmon

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Before you do anything else . . .

How level was your setup area? How do you know this?


Norm
Ok, if I understand you, you ask for previous setting parameteres, or the boundary conditions when I took measurements? If they´re about them, I have no answer. I only know tires are 2.4 bar and the partking ground has no side slope.

But I have discovered something interesting. I have invented a very rudimentary system to know the camber angle. Well, my purpose is not to know the exact value, because is impossible without specific tools, but to know the angle difference from one side to other. At least, althought it´s rudimentary, the procedure is the same for all the wheels, so the difference of angles is a bit more accurate.
So aplying trigonometrics, the angle difference in front is about -0,85º and rear -0,63º higher, both on passenger side. So that could be the reason of the difference I explained in the picture. This time, the calculus does not consider distances with the wheel fender, so my guess is I have to go to a workshop to equal de cambers. Maybe -1º should be enough (I don´t go for tracking) I accept suggestions.

Now I´m going to see where is the bolt to touch to adjust front and rear camber, and I´ll have to explain to the mechanic, because I bet he didn´t aligned a Mustang before here in Spain.
 

Norm Peterson

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Ok, if I understand you, you ask for previous setting parameteres, or the boundary conditions when I took measurements? If they´re about them, I have no answer. I only know tires are 2.4 bar and the parking ground has no side slope.
Have you actually measured it for level or at least checked it with a carpenter's bubble level? Any out-of-level will leave the car body at an angle to your weighted strings. On one side, the out-of-level error will add to the correct dimension, on the other side it will subtract, so the difference between your side to side measurements is basically a double dose of any error in setup area levelness.

In addition to making sure that the tire pressures were equal, are the tire tread depths equal side to side? I'll assume that the tires are the same make, model, and size.


But I have discovered something interesting. I have invented a very rudimentary system to know the camber angle. Well, my purpose is not to know the exact value, because is impossible without specific tools
Actually, its quite easy to measure camber, and to measure it to within ±0.1° doesn't take expensive equipment at all. This is entirely good enough for checking the alignment for a street-driven car, and good enough for most amateur track driving purposes.

Alignment - camber-web.JPG

You don't even need equipment that fancy. For at least ten years I measured camber with these tools . . . well, OK, I did have to do a little pocket-calculator math to get camber in degrees.

Really cheap camber measuring.jpg
.


Now I´m going to see where is the bolt to touch to adjust front and rear camber, and I´ll have to explain to the mechanic, because I bet he didn´t aligned a Mustang before here in Spain.
I'm afraid you're either going to have to source some special bolts from Ford for front camber (there's a factory procedure for this) or install camber plates at the tops of the struts. There are other sources for camber bolts, but they are not full strength and I can't in good conscience recommend them. Finally, there's a couple of DIY methods of obtaining a little camber adjustability.

When you get actual camber measurements from a positively-known-to-be-level surface there are people here who can give you specific non-stock alignment suggestions if you provide some description of your driving.


Norm
 

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I suspect your weight on a wire measuring system only has an accuracy of +/-10mm.

A good experiment would to be repeat the same process (without looking at the old numbers, i.e. cheating) and see how well the new measurements match the old.
 
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akmon

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Have you actually measured it for level or at least checked it with a carpenter's bubble level? Any out-of-level will leave the car body at an angle to your weighted strings. On one side, the out-of-level error will add to the correct dimension, on the other side it will subtract, so the difference between your side to side measurements is basically a double dose of any error in setup area levelness.

In addition to making sure that the tire pressures were equal, are the tire tread depths equal side to side? I'll assume that the tires are the same make, model, and size.



Actually, its quite easy to measure camber, and to measure it to within ±0.1° doesn't take expensive equipment at all. This is entirely good enough for checking the alignment for a street-driven car, and good enough for most amateur track driving purposes.

Alignment - camber-web.JPG

You don't even need equipment that fancy. For at least ten years I measured camber with these tools . . . well, OK, I did have to do a little pocket-calculator math to get camber in degrees.

Really cheap camber measuring.jpg
.



I'm afraid you're either going to have to source some special bolts from Ford for front camber (there's a factory procedure for this) or install camber plates at the tops of the struts. There are other sources for camber bolts, but they are not full strength and I can't in good conscience recommend them. Finally, there's a couple of DIY methods of obtaining a little camber adjustability.

When you get actual camber measurements from a positively-known-to-be-level surface there are people here who can give you specific non-stock alignment suggestions if you provide some description of your driving.


Norm
Norm, your post is delightful to read. As I was reading my head started to boil ideas. About the ground, I was too much confident with the slope of the ground of my parking, althought I used a bubble level, it´s not a absolut tool to say the groung is flat. The slightest slope in the pavement can modify a few mm. You were right, to proove that, I parked the car 180º and measured again. The results. Front difference 2 mm outer the left side. Rear difference: 1,5 mm outer the left side. It still goes to the left, I thought the difference will invert to the right side, but anyway, I´m going to get this out of my head because it´s impossible ta make a conclusion, only an aligment will tell the true values, nothing else. And now I´m more confident that the level numbers won´t go too much.
I copy your idea of the digital level to calculate the camber. The solution is simple, I only have to purchase that tool. I´ll surf to Amazon.
I´ve also learnt that there is a specific bolt to adjust the rear camber but there is no bolt in front unless you install some aftermarket parts. But I will be very interested if you pass the kinks for those DIY adjustments, specially in front. My driving style is conservative, very few tracks. More road and sometimes long trips. I´ve read somewhere that -1,5º front and -1,25º rear will be enough.
Overall thank you so much for this valuable information and sorry for my english.

I suspect your weight on a wire measuring system only has an accuracy of +/-10mm.

A good experiment would to be repeat the same process (without looking at the old numbers, i.e. cheating) and see how well the new measurements match the old.
It´s a good idea because the way you measure can add or sustract a pair of mm. If you think the accuracy is 10 mm, then it´s better not to contiune doing these measurements. I only want not to have surprises when I purchase the new wheels with different offsets.

Measure once, then turn the car around 180 degrees and measure again.
You had the same idea I had when I read Norm´s post. Read above. Thank you very much for your suggestion.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm, your post is delightful to read. As I was reading my head started to boil ideas. About the ground, I was too much confident with the slope of the ground of my parking, althought I used a bubble level, it´s not a absolut tool to say the groung is flat. The slightest slope in the pavement can modify a few mm. You were right, to proove that, I parked the car 180º and measured again. The results. Front difference 2 mm outer the left side. Rear difference: 1,5 mm outer the left side. It still goes to the left, I thought the difference will invert to the right side, but anyway, I´m going to get this out of my head because it´s impossible ta make a conclusion, only an aligment will tell the true values, nothing else. And now I´m more confident that the level numbers won´t go too much.
I copy your idea of the digital level to calculate the camber. The solution is simple, I only have to purchase that tool. I´ll surf to Amazon.
I´ve also learnt that there is a specific bolt to adjust the rear camber but there is no bolt in front unless you install some aftermarket parts. But I will be very interested if you pass the kinks for those DIY adjustments, specially in front. My driving style is conservative, very few tracks. More road and sometimes long trips. I´ve read somewhere that -1,5º front and -1,25º rear will be enough.
Overall thank you so much for this valuable information and sorry for my english.
What you can do is level up your setup area using something like vinyl floor tiles to shim under the low side tire locations. Or, you can take careful side to side measurements and determine how far out of level the concrete is, and work that angle back into your measured cambers to get true cambers.

Don't worry about your English on my account. I spent a good number of years working in an engineering office where English being somebody's second language was a common occurrence.


Norm
 
 




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