End of the GT350 Production. What is Ford's plan?

[Norm Peterson]

​

I think we can speculate all we want but the most pragmatic move especially in these times would be to skip the GT350 'class' for the remainder of the generation.

Track performance duties should be relegated to the GT500 and rightfully so. Why create 'another' track toy car while the 500 can do 0-100-0 quicker than a Lamborghini? Doesn't make marketing sense.

Agreed as far as the matter of having only one undisputed halo Mustang is concerned.

That said, the GT500 is beyond realistic financial reach of many who would take their Mustangs to a track day (certainly well beyond mine at this point). Never mind that it's way too much car for a novice to be starting a track day habit with.

Maybe if the Mach 1 becomes the top-optionable GT, the PP2 can go in a slightly more hardcore track performance direction with the additional cooling it needs without the worry of it cannibalizing GT350 sales.


Norm

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[Hi-PO Stang]

I say , let the market place dictate what options are offered. If diff coolers are offered on the Mustang GT, and sales of the Halo Mustangs suffer then discontinue the diff coolers on the Mustang GT. The people in charge at Ford who determine what options are offered on Mustangs do not know for a fact that any one of the Mustangs will have fewer sales because all Mustangs have diff coolers because the product planners have not offered diff coolers on all Mustangs. By the way , any Mustang built should have the option of a rear seat delete option.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I say , let the market place dictate what options are offered. If diff coolers are offered on the Mustang GT, and sales of the Halo Mustangs suffer then discontinue the diff coolers on the Mustang GT. The people in charge at Ford who determine what options are offered on Mustangs do not know for a fact that any one of the Mustangs will have fewer sales because all Mustangs have diff coolers because the product planners have not offered diff coolers on all Mustangs.

I can't see sales of the $70k GT500 being lost to the $50k GT/PP2 over differential and possibly tranny cooling in the latter being standard equipment for that trim.

Nor do I really see such supplemental cooling making enough sense in any other trim to be any more than a dealer-installed option or an over-the-counter Ford Performance part.


Norm

 

[Voodoo Velocity]

This popped up in MSN Autos today about a future hybrid Mustang....

"That's not to say Ford won't ever put such a powertrain in a Mustang model; it's just that we don't expect it to do so until a few years after the launch of the next-generation pony car. When, or if, Ford makes a V-8 hybrid variant of the Mustang, the company is likely to put the powertrain in a lower volume, high-performance model (à la the V-8 engines of the Shelby GT350 and GT500). "

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...y-get-v-8-engine-e-awd/ar-BB1304D2?li=BBnb4R5

 

[jpindustrie]

Agreed as far as the matter of having only one undisputed halo Mustang is concerned.

That said, the GT500 is beyond realistic financial reach of many who would take their Mustangs to a track day (certainly well beyond mine at this point). Never mind that it's way too much car for a novice to be starting a track day habit with.

Maybe if the Mach 1 becomes the top-optionable GT, the PP2 can go in a slightly more hardcore track performance direction with the additional cooling it needs without the worry of it cannibalizing GT350 sales.


Norm

Good to hear from you Norm ...

My argument to that is Ford always does these shades of changes... IMO it just makes more sense to leave the GT350 section of the market - for now. I'm sure there will be 'shades' of GT350 parts/concepts/tuning in other cars but based upon other speciality mustangs , its time for the pasture ...

 

[JAJ]

I'm not sure if Ford's still doing it, but the S550 product line architecture was loosely based on the Porsche 911 product architecture. There's a series of street machines at various power and handling levels, with a wide array of options, and then there is a naturally aspirated track machine like the GT3 and a forced induction track machine like the GT2. Wile the vehicles are very different, the marketing strategy - the distance between steps in performance and price - is quite similar. Anyway, if you want to speculate about the next edition Mustang product line, especially the part about where electric will fit in, take a look again at Porsche.

The thing that Ford got right when they brought out the GT350/R and GT500 is to make the cars track capable as they roll out the showroom door. There were stories circulating a few years back - late 997 or early 991 time - that someone in Germany bought a new GT3RS and drove it from the showroom to a sanctioned endurance race and placed well up in the finishers. You could do that with a GT350R or a GT500 CFTP, but you wouldn't get more than about 5 laps from a GT PP2 or any of the other GT variants. Nor would you with a 911 GTS or any of it's variants.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

The original concept of the Mustang was that you could customize the Mustang the way you wanted to by choosing the options you desired. I think that was one reason why the original Mustangs sold so well. Now you are limited to what options you can get on the Mustang because of the packages you have to select.
I get frustrated when I try to configure a Mustang and find out I can not get an OTT stripe when I choose the package I want . Why can something as easy as putting a stripe on the roof not be available when certain packages are selected ?

 

[Hack]

I can't see sales of the $70k GT500 being lost to the $50k GT/PP2 over differential and possibly tranny cooling in the latter being standard equipment for that trim.

Nor do I really see such supplemental cooling making enough sense in any other trim to be any more than a dealer-installed option or an over-the-counter Ford Performance part.


Norm

You might be surprised. I understand I might be odd in my preferences, but the cooling is very important to me. More important than Shelby badges. And a $20K difference in price is important as well. If I could get a new GT with cooling I might have bought it this time around. And I really didn't want to spend for a GT350, but I almost went there just because it has the cooling.

I'm just saying that for me the cooling is a very important part of the equation.

 

[martinjlm]

I can't see sales of the $70k GT500 being lost to the $50k GT/PP2 over differential and possibly tranny cooling in the latter being standard equipment for that trim.

Nor do I really see such supplemental cooling making enough sense in any other trim to be any more than a dealer-installed option or an over-the-counter Ford Performance part.


Norm

You might be surprised. I understand I might be odd in my preferences, but the cooling is very important to me. More important than Shelby badges. And a $20K difference in price is important as well. If I could get a new GT with cooling I might have bought it this time around. And I really didn't want to spend for a GT350, but I almost went there just because it has the cooling.

I'm just saying that for me the cooling is a very important part of the equation.

That’s why I’m thinking it would be in Ford’s best interest to either add coolers to the PP2 package or at least make it a selectable option when the PP2 box is checked. It would give Ford a Mustang that could compete on track with the SS 1LE at a price that doesn’t cannibalize GT500 sales and can actually add to the corporate cash drawer. It would have been tough to do this with GT350 in the lineup because the capability of the PP2 + coolers would approach the capability of GT350. It would have had to to compete directly with 1LE. But with GT350 retired, that lane is wide open.

 

[shogun32]

It would give Ford a Mustang that could compete on track with the SS 1LE at a price that doesn’t cannibalize GT500 sales

The SS 1LE has a MSRP of 45K so there's no reason why Ford can't bake all the necessary parts into the PP2 and hit the same price point.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You might be surprised. I understand I might be odd in my preferences, but the cooling is very important to me. More important than Shelby badges. And a $20K difference in price is important as well. If I could get a new GT with cooling I might have bought it this time around. And I really didn't want to spend for a GT350, but I almost went there just because it has the cooling.

I'm just saying that for me the cooling is a very important part of the equation.

I agree with the idea that it should be available. I just don't think every GT-level trim needs to get track cooling. Standard or optional on the PP2, sure. Available for those who would rather start with a non-PP GT because they're going to do their own build, sure. For the non-PP GT that my neighbor across the street might get into next (he currently has an EB with automatic that only gets street driven), extra cooling would be a complete waste.


Norm

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

I think it is just a theory that one model takes sales from another because of some similar options. I say let the market place dictate what is wanted by the buyer. When your dealer has allocations already spoken for regarding the Halo Mustangs , the buyer of the less expensive Mustang should be able too get some of the options the Halo Mustang has like rear seat delete option. No way would a rear seat delete option take sales away from a Halo Mustang that is not available from your dealer.

 

[martinjlm]

It’s not so much a question of options and features and more an issue of capability. If Ford had equipped the PP2 with coolers and Cup 2 tires from the beginning, the track capability of that car would have been within a heartbeat of the track capability of the GT350 (but not R) for several thousand dollars less than the GT350. That would make no sense. So Ford’s remedy was to not include coolers and tell everyone that PP2 is not a track car, despite the track purposed Cup 2 tires. Personally, I would have preferred they include the coolers and more street-worthy tires. Then those who do want to track it can get their own wheels and tires (which most track rats do anyway).

Now that GT350 is retired, Ford can put coolers on the PP2 and not worry about bumping up against GT500 track performance.

 

[shogun32]

If Ford had equipped the PP2 with coolers and Cup 2 tires from the beginning, the track capability of that car would have been within a heartbeat of the track capability of the GT350 (but not R) for several thousand dollars less than the GT350. That would make no sense.

except the PP2 -> GT350 price delta is on the order of 12-15k and the PP2 has the 'shitty' transmission to contend with. Only delusional Ford marketing would think they had a problem with differentiation on their hands.

 

[martinjlm]

except the PP2 -> GT350 price delta is on the order of 12-15k and the PP2 has the 'shitty' transmission to contend with. Only delusional Ford marketing would think they had a problem with differentiation on their hands.

Forgot all about the Getrag --> Tremec thing. Drove a Bullitt and a GT350 within a week of each other. Couldn't wait to give the Bullitt back and tried every scheme in the books to keep the GT350 longer. At least 25% of that had to do with the MT in the Bullitt. Hated it. But still, for $12 - 15k, some would overlook (or change) the Getrag in order to get a car with close to GT350 track capability. I might. I'd be in the "change the tranny" camp, though.

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