I blew up my FBO Coyote!

[3beeps]

I would rather have a 575 rwhp NA setup than a 650 rwhp boosted setup. To each their own. Most people here drink the boosted setup Koolaid, honestly.

Why would you want a slower car for the same money?

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[Zinc03svt]

I agree a gen3 with E85 and minor bolt on’s being a fun street car. Love to watch a 800 to 1200 whp straight line setup (sway bar deletes) follow me through the Ozark Mountain twisties... ;).

 

[Ronnoc]

Is that even possible? How would you control the DI side of things without swapping to a G3 control pack, which only adds to the issues.

You can run the 12:1 compression on a Gen 2, just use E85 and it will be fine.

At the end of the day you would be better suited to drop a junkyard motor in it, pull off the mods and trade it in on a 19/20 and go all motor from there.

Also interested in how feasible this is, never heard of it being done before. Considered the junkyard motor route but I found my built motor for about the same price even less considering the miles and parts. Car is almost paid off so I'm gonna set her right and keep it for a bit.

 

[Ronnoc]

Why would you want a slower car for the same money?

Really wouldn't be the same money for me in this situation though. I could buy a set of comp cams or whatever cams for $1500 and throw them in there for no additional labor. Add a CJ instead of a ported 18 if I wanted. so $2500 in parts for me to run 500+whp. If I wanted to buy a boost set up, there's a couple sets used for $6k for sale now on the forums and I'm assuming more $ for new.

 

[3beeps]

Really wouldn't be the same money for me in this situation though. I could buy a set of comp cams or whatever cams for $1500 and throw them in there for no additional labor. Add a CJ instead of a ported 18 if I wanted. so $2500 in parts for me to run 500+whp. If I wanted to buy a boost set up, there's a couple sets used for $6k for sale now on the forums and I'm assuming more $ for new.

I originally quoted the guy who said cams, CJ, valvesprings, port the heads, longtubes, etc. That's at least as much as a turbo kit or supercharger kit.


On3 kit is $4225.

Nothing wrong with a bolt-on NA setup, but going beyond that and spending thousands of dollars to make 500whp just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Ronnoc]

I originally quoted the guy who said cams, CJ, valvesprings, port the heads, longtubes, etc. That's at least as much as a turbo kit or supercharger kit.


On3 kit is $4225.

Nothing wrong with a bolt-on NA setup, but going beyond that and spending thousands of dollars to make 500whp just doesn't seem worth it.

I'm in an unique situation here where my new motor needs assembled so adding something like cams wont add any additional labor. I'd get a screaming deal on the in house port work too with all this lumped in. Boost would require a lot more dollars up front for a kit plus a lot more $$'s in supporting mods to handle big power levels. I'm not an expert but I'd find it hard to believe that inexpensive turbo kit is only gonna cost me an additional $4225 said and done. And its not all about dyno numbers for me, not at all. Just want something that's rewarding to beat the piss out of, revs to the moon, and wont blow up this time...

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I originally quoted the guy who said cams, CJ, valvesprings, port the heads, longtubes, etc. That's at least as much as a turbo kit or supercharger kit.


On3 kit is $4225.

Nothing wrong with a bolt-on NA setup, but going beyond that and spending thousands of dollars to make 500whp just doesn't seem worth it.

As I stated, a full stage 3 heads/cams combo will make much more than 500 rwhp on pump gas. People spend $1,600 on a catback exhaust that adds 4 rwhp and changes the noise level of the exhaust. LT Headers add what, 20-25 rhwp and cost $1200-1500 for a quality set? Spending a few thousand for another 100+ rwhp on top of a FBO car is not that much of a stretch. I also think it's safe to assume most cars that are being supercharged already have FBOs, including LT headers, so the FBO costs should be considered a wash. I realize not all have them, but most will. So, then you compare the cost of a forced induction kit to the heads/cams. I think it's reasonable to assume a supercharged setup will be in the $7k range (assuming you install it yourself) and add around 200 rwhp, give or take. You can get stock Gen 3 coyote heads to a stage 3 port for about $2k. That price includes having them reassembled and shipped. Aftermarket cams are $1.5k. So, with a tune, say ~$4k for an additional ~100 rwhp on top of FBOs and the cost of a few gaskets and other parts. Not the worst $/hp out there (assuming stock '18 manifold).

Plus, a supercharger setup adds over 100 lbs to the front of the car and tends to overwhelm street tires to make the cars pretty unusable at low speeds.

So, you can spend about $4k for 100 rwhp or spend about $7-8k for around 200 rwhp.

If the goal is to go as fast as possible down a drag strip, then obviously, forced induction is the way to go. But for a very fun and fast street car? NA is an option.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Why would you want a slower car for the same money?

I don't go to the drag strip anymore where the huge power can more easily be put down to the ground with the right prep and tires. I also rarely street race anymore, either. But, on the street, a 580-600 rwhp NA car will keep up with a 700 rwhp supercharged car from a slow roll and dig to a relatively surprising velocity because the supercharged car will completely overwhelm the street tires at any reasonable starting speed due to the higher torque output. I see on here all the time people complaining about spinning the tires with their supercharged car past 60 mph. Congrats. You spent twice as much to go just as fast on the street below 70 mph (which by that point, you're likely going to jail if caught anyway) and to race at half throttle because you can't use all that power anyway.

That said, a high hp NA build will also spin the tires, but with less torque it will be less of an issue.

I don't have a problem with forced induction, but it's probably not the route I'll take when I eventually start modifying my car.

 

[Nuked]

I don't go to the drag strip anymore where the huge power can more easily be put down to the ground with the right prep and tires. I also rarely street race anymore, either. But, on the street, a 580-600 rwhp NA car will keep up with a 700 rwhp supercharged car from a slow roll and dig to a relatively surprising velocity because the supercharged car will completely overwhelm the street tires at any reasonable starting speed due to the higher torque output. I see on here all the time people complaining about spinning the tires with their supercharged car past 60 mph. Congrats. You spent twice as much to go just as fast on the street below 70 mph (which by that point, you're likely going to jail if caught anyway) and to race at half throttle because you can't use all that power anyway.

That said, a high hp NA build will also spin the tires, but with less torque it will be less of an issue.

I don't have a problem with forced induction, but it's probably not the route I'll take when I eventually start modifying my car.

He has a Gen 2, no way in hell it is gonna make 580-600rwhp short of some MAJOR work. CJ, Cams, TB, Injectors, LTH, ported heads/ bigger valves plus race fuel or E85 and you will be barely over 500rwhp in a Gen 2.

 

[FruityJudy]

Now the question becomes, what else should I consider doing to the motor? My tech wont charge me a dime extra at this point if I swap out different parts, like Camshafts.

My tech is an engine builder and machinist and could port my heads and help turn this motor into an N/A beast.

Does anyone out there have good experience in this arena and have any wisdom to offer? I was happy with 454 whp N/A. But if I have an opportunity to make a little more I figured its worth considering.

Will keep this thread updated as the build progresses..

Just bumping this original post back up. I dont recall anything about why he shouldnt go this route or should he go boosted instead in his post. Thought this was going to be a good thread with good info and curiosity but looks like everyone wants you to do things their way or the cookie cutter way. Im all in for you to do an all out NA build. Would love to see you do a pre and post ported heads dyno but that may be unreasonable. Hell i dont care if you spend 60k on the motor. Doesnt affect my pocket book but by reading some of these posts it seems you may have money in some of these posters banking account

 

[Jhonda]

I have done turbo, supercharged, nitrous, and all motor cars and trucks before. Each have their perks. The thing I liked about all motor is the ability to do long hard drives without the worry of heat soak. I know that can be countered but that gets expensive also. Killer chiller worked good on my lightning but it’s just one more thing to go wrong. I like the all motor best right now due to open track events like VIR etc...

 

[zero_chance]

500 rwhp is low with a Stage 3 heads and cams setup. There are stock heads/cam Gen 3 coyotes that are making 500 rhwp with an E85 tune and bolt ons. Try closer to 600 rwhp on pump gas, even higher with E85.

So they’re making nearly +300 engine hp with NA bolt ons huh?

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

So they’re making nearly +300 engine hp with NA bolt ons huh?

I haven't been talking about bolt ons only. I've been talking about FBOs plus stage 3 heads/cams setup if he converted to a Gen 3 coyote with port injection+DI and 12:1 compression ratio as he has a chance to do since he's basically starting from scratch. I'm ball parking the gains; 600 rwhp may be optimistic, but more realistically, upper 500s, would be more like 160 rwhp gain with FBO and stage 3 heads/cams. I.e., 575 rwhp - 415 rwhp = 160 rwhp. 160 rwhp converts to about 180 crank hp (160 rwhp/0.89 = 180 hp, assuming 11% drivetrain loss). Anyway, it's just an estimate.

 

[WildHorse]

Why would you want a slower car for the same money?

Cause some of us like the look on boosted boyz faces when us NA gap ur azz

 

[3beeps]

Cause some of us like the look on boosted boyz faces when us NA gap ur azz

lol ok

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