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Thank you, Cobra! So I did call and get the Regional CSR. They actually tried calling me today to get more information for possible buy-back purposes, but I was working. I just called back and left a message. Today is Day 35 of my vehicle being in the shop. I also requested for my monthly payment for last month to be reimbursed due to the vehicle being out of commission. Your assistance has been very helpful.

I do have a few questions, however. So you stated Replacement would be a straight MSRP to MSRP swap and there would be no discounts etc. applied. So my GT was purchased new at $30,000. I know most MSRP's for GT Automatics are roughly $35,000. So if this buyback was approved for replacement, would I now be financing the $35,000 amount if I found another identical vehicle? Basically:

1) If approved for replacement, am I now responsible for financing $35,000 instead of $30,000?
2) The payments I made to my lender are just reimbursed to me?

I would definitely be discouraged if I'm now having to finance an additional $5,000 because of the vehicle's quality.
Almost, but no.

So here’s a (2) example breakouts with totally hypothetical numbers and values of how the vehicle replacement MSRP to MSRP works.

——-

MSRP to MSRP where new MSRP is higher:

Owner finds new replacement 2019 GT for $40k.

Owner had $10k left on existing 2018 GT.

$35k original 2018 GT MSRP
$(25k) amount paid down on note
———
$10k left on note

Owner’s State Lemon Law says owner is responsible for following fees:
Mileage use
Tax delta between original vehicle and new vehicle (apply State sales tax to delta).
DMV fees
Dealer Doc fees
Other misc fees

Say all those above fees/penalties were $1,000.00

$10k - left on original note
$1k - total penalties/fees
———
$11k still Owner’s responsibility

$40k New 2019 GT MSRP
$(35k) - 2018 GT MSRP
——
$5k over original MSRP

Total due at signing and delivery of new 2019 GT replacement:

$11k original note/fees
$5k over MSRP
———
$16k due at signing via cash or new loan

So the owner is into a brand new 2019 GT for $16k.

Some lending institutions will do a swap of collateral and let owner keep existing loan and change VIN info, while others will require payoff of existing loan and open a new loan - every bank or Credit Union is different so if attempting a vehicle replacement, the owner should inquire as to how that would work for them and their situation.

Again, the above is hypothetical MSRP values and fees - BUT the process or worksheet from RAV works exactly as depicted above for a vehicle replacement.

Fees, monetary penalties, taxes are different in every State, so some folks may only have to pay fees and tax deltas and NO useage penalties - where some other folks may have to pay fees/penalties/misc costs AND mileage penalties.

Now OBVIOUSLY if say the scenario above were equal MSRP to MSRP; here’s the same figures played out:

$35k original 2018 GT MSRP
$(25k) paid down on note
———
$10k left on original note
$1k fees
———
$11k still responsibility of owner

$35k 2018 GT MSRP
$(35k) 2019 GT MSRP
———
$0.00
$11k remaining note + fees
——
$11k due at signing

——-
I hope that helps with how the vehicle replacement works.

When going through the RAV process, you the owner have the right to reject RAV’s figures, etc. It’s all part of the process.

—-

State sales tax is only due when the new vehicle replacement is higher than the original MSRP. So if the new MSRP was $5k higher than your original, then you are responsible for State Sales Tax only on the $5k delta (or whatever that delta may be), not the whole MSRP.
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damships

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Almost, but no.

So here’s a (2) example breakouts with totally hypothetical numbers and values of how the vehicle replacement MSRP to MSRP works.

——-

MSRP to MSRP where new MSRP is higher:

Owner finds new replacement 2019 GT for $40k.

Owner had $10k left on existing 2018 GT.

$35k original 2018 GT MSRP
$(25k) amount paid down on note
———
$10k left on note

Owner’s State Lemon Law says owner is responsible for following fees:
Mileage use
Tax delta between original vehicle and new vehicle (apply State sales tax to delta).
DMV fees
Dealer Doc fees
Other misc fees

Say all those above fees/penalties were $1,000.00

$10k - left on original note
$1k - total penalties/fees
———
$11k still Owner’s responsibility

$40k New 2019 GT MSRP
$(35k) - 2018 GT MSRP
——
$5k over original MSRP

Total due at signing and delivery of new 2019 GT replacement:

$11k original note/fees
$5k over MSRP
———
$16k due at signing via cash or new loan

So the owner is into a brand new 2019 GT for $16k.

Some lending institutions will do a swap of collateral and let owner keep existing loan and change VIN info, while others will require payoff of existing loan and open a new loan - every bank or Credit Union is different so if attempting a vehicle replacement, the owner should inquire as to how that would work for them and their situation.

Again, the above is hypothetical MSRP values and fees - BUT the process or worksheet from RAV works exactly as depicted above for a vehicle replacement.

Fees, monetary penalties, taxes are different in every State, so some folks may only have to pay fees and tax deltas and NO useage penalties - where some other folks may have to pay fees/penalties/misc costs AND mileage penalties.

Now OBVIOUSLY if say the scenario above were equal MSRP to MSRP; here’s the same figures played out:

$35k original 2018 GT MSRP
$(25k) paid down on note
———
$10k left on original note
$1k fees
———
$11k still responsibility of owner

$35k 2018 GT MSRP
$(35k) 2019 GT MSRP
———
$0.00
$11k remaining note + fees
——
$11k due at signing

——-
I hope that helps with how the vehicle replacement works.

When going through the RAV process, you the owner have the right to reject RAV’s figures, etc. It’s all part of the process.

—-

State sales tax is only due when the new vehicle replacement is higher than the original MSRP. So if the new MSRP was $5k higher than your original, then you are responsible for State Sales Tax only on the $5k delta (or whatever that delta may be), not the whole MSRP.
Thank you for the really detailed response! Makes a lot more sense now. I’ll update this forum when I hear something. As of now, they extended my rental another two weeks. I don’t think they know what’s going on. I could be wrong, but I have a gut feeling they’re going to approve a buy-back, where I’ll just go for a replacement Mustang GT.
 

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UPDATE: Received an e-mail from my Regional Customer Service Representative, asking for details regarding my request for buy-back. They are stating this can be a 30-day process, possibly a few days more due to COVID-19. I replied to their e-mail with their requested information. They stated they will send it to their "Lemon Law Department" which is separate from them. I'm guessing this is the RAV Department. Here is a copy of the e-mail in case people are wondering or going through the same process (all private information was removed):

Mr. XXXXX,

Good morning, I am XXXXX another Regional Manager here with Ford assisting your manager XXXXX, who is your regional manager. I understand that you have requested Ford to repurchase/replace your vehicle. I can open up a review from our Lemon Law Buyback team free of charge. A review will be completed taking into consideration all of the information in your request, including your vehicle repair history along with your state’s guidelines. Also if you wish to look up your states guidelines for the buyback, you’re welcome to find the criteria online on the BBB.org website. I personally do not complete this review, it is a separate Lemon Law review department. This review typically takes up to 30 days, due to COVID-19 we have been experiencing delays. As soon as I have the results back from our Buyback team I will then contact you back. My contact information is XXXXX ext. XXXXX your regional managers ext. XXXXX. If you have any questions, or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me so I can assist. A follow up is scheduled for XXXXX to contact you today.

Also I will need this information filled out in order to start the buyback for you please.

Name(s) on the Title: XXXXX

Vehicle Information

VIN : XXXXX

Current Mileage:

Ownership Status: Original Owner

Purchase Date: XXXXX

Exact Mileage at Purchase:

State Information

State Where Purchased:

State Where Registered:

Dealer Information

Purchased from Dealer?

Dealership (if yes):

Primary Reason for Repurchase:
 
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UPDATE: Received an e-mail from my Regional Customer Service Representative, asking for details regarding my request for buy-back. They are stating this can be a 30-day process, possibly a few days more due to COVID-19. I replied to their e-mail with their requested information. They stated they will send it to their "Lemon Law Department" which is separate from them. I'm guessing this is the RAV Department. Here is a copy of the e-mail in case people are wondering or going through the same process (all private information was removed):

Mr. XXXXX,

Good morning, I am XXXXX another Regional Manager here with Ford assisting your manager XXXXX, who is your regional manager. I understand that you have requested Ford to repurchase/replace your vehicle. I can open up a review from our Lemon Law Buyback team free of charge. A review will be completed taking into consideration all of the information in your request, including your vehicle repair history along with your state’s guidelines. Also if you wish to look up your states guidelines for the buyback, you’re welcome to find the criteria online on the BBB.org website. I personally do not complete this review, it is a separate Lemon Law review department. This review typically takes up to 30 days, due to COVID-19 we have been experiencing delays. As soon as I have the results back from our Buyback team I will then contact you back. My contact information is XXXXX ext. XXXXX your regional managers ext. XXXXX. If you have any questions, or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me so I can assist. A follow up is scheduled for XXXXX to contact you today.

Also I will need this information filled out in order to start the buyback for you please.

Name(s) on the Title: XXXXX

Vehicle Information

VIN : XXXXX

Current Mileage:

Ownership Status: Original Owner

Purchase Date: XXXXX

Exact Mileage at Purchase:

State Information

State Where Purchased:

State Where Registered:

Dealer Information

Purchased from Dealer?

Dealership (if yes):

Primary Reason for Repurchase:
Correct, it will enter into the RAV process at which point you should be assigned to a RAV Rep. RAV will require copies of DL, Registration, original Invoice (the Dealership paperwork from when you bought the car) and proof of Insurance.

After you submit the required info, it enters into a review phase then you will be sent a RAV Worksheet. The Worksheet will contain your original MSRP, any usage fee penalties (again only if applicable per your a State Lemon Laws), current loan payoff figure (if car was financed), the new replacement vehicle MSRP and any delta.

State Sales Taxes (if applicable by your State Lemon Law and if MSRP is greater than original) and any other fees (if applicable per your State Lemon laws) will be added to your New Car Invoice from the Dealership. You will work with the Dealership to get those interim figures and so you can work with your Lender (if car was financed).

RAV will not assist with you picking out or finding the replacement Ford, you and your Dealership work to find the new vehicle. Once you do, then you and the Dealership Salesman will notify RAV so they have the replacement MSRP value for the Worksheet.

You can approve or deny the RAV Worksheet - so do NOT sign off on that Worksheet until you are in 100% agreement to with the figures presented. Also if the RAV process takes 2-4 weeks, if your car was financed be certain that the payoff figure is updated - otherwise you will short yourself.

During the RAV process, you are still responsible for maintaining the vehicle, keeping the Ins up to date as well as making car payments (if applicable). You can still use the car up until the day you have to go to the Dealership to turn it back over to Ford.

It may sound like a lot above, but just think of it as when you purchased the car - everything works the same, it’s just that you have to deal with the RAV process BS on top of the “trade in” and will have additional RAV paperwork to sign at the Dealership that documents your vehicle as being a Buy Back through RAV.

—-
Do make sure you return all requested docs/info by any imposed RAV deadlines. Do follow up with RAV and the Dealership as much as possible, don’t rely on them to keep the ball rolling...

If you added anything to the car, remove it. RAV will not reimburse for any aftermarket upgrades over how the car came out of the factory and will not reimburse for labor to removing any such parts.
 

growly2020

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@Cobra Jet I am currently going through the Buyback/Replacement process with Ford Reacquired Vehicle Specialists on my 2018 GT Premium 10 Speed Auto. It has had a shutter when shifting gears 3/4/5/6. Have had the valve body replaced, torque converter replaced and a solenoid replaced. Car spent about 45 days total in the shop. I am already to the point of picking my replacement car and now I am just waiting on the quality review approval. The two ladies I have been working with have been fabulous throughout this whole process.
My question for you: Do you know if I would be able to do the 0% Finance Incentive when getting my replacement? They advised me that I could not because it is an “incentive”. In my opinion it just doesn’t seem right since that is what Ford Credit is currently offering and it would be a new loan. Anyway...let me know your thoughts. I will post the VIN when my process is complete!
 

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@Cobra Jet I am currently going through the Buyback/Replacement process with Ford Reacquired Vehicle Specialists on my 2018 GT Premium 10 Speed Auto. It has had a shutter when shifting gears 3/4/5/6. Have had the valve body replaced, torque converter replaced and a solenoid replaced. Car spent about 45 days total in the shop. I am already to the point of picking my replacement car and now I am just waiting on the quality review approval. The two ladies I have been working with have been fabulous throughout this whole process.
My question for you: Do you know if I would be able to do the 0% Finance Incentive when getting my replacement? They advised me that I could not because it is an “incentive”. In my opinion it just doesn’t seem right since that is what Ford Credit is currently offering and it would be a new loan. Anyway...let me know your thoughts. I will post the VIN when my process is complete!
Unfortunately when doing a RAV vehicle replacement, it is strictly MSRP to MSRP. Any incentives, rebates, programs or discounts that Ford Corp is running/offers or what stand alone Ford Dealers may be offering are not allowed at all.

That current 0/84 is a Ford “incentive” for enticing Buyers to buy a Ford - even if it’s through Ford Credit. You could most likely still go through Ford Credit for a vehicle loan, but with the Buy Back, I don’t believe they will budge to do a 0/84.
 

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Unfortunately when doing a RAV vehicle replacement, it is strictly MSRP to MSRP. Any incentives, rebates, programs or discounts that Ford Corp is running/offers or what stand alone Ford Dealers may be offering are not allowed at all.

That current 0/84 is a Ford “incentive” for enticing Buyers to buy a Ford - even if it’s through Ford Credit. You could most likely still go through Ford Credit for a vehicle loan, but with the Buy Back, I don’t believe they will budge to do a 0/84.
Thanks! I figured as much but since you are very knowledgeable with the process I wanted your input.
 

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UPDATE: My vehicle has been at the service center for 45 days. They informed me they had to order a crankshaft pulley early last week, but there has been no updates since last Wednesday. Regional Customer Service Rep called me (outside of the hours of availability I told them about...of course) and left a message informing me that they would actually have a determination on the Buy Back by Thursday. That's a lot faster than I anticipated. So we will see!
 
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UPDATE: My vehicle has been at the service center for 45 days. They informed me they had to order a crankshaft pulley early last week, but there has been no updates since last Wednesday. Regional Customer Service Rep called me (outside of the hours of availability I told them about...of course) and left a message informing me that they would actually have a determination on the Buy Back by Thursday. That's a lot faster than I anticipated. So we will see!
if you don’t hear from them by or on Thursday, you call them back. If your CSR stalls or comes up with other excuses during the convo then just say look it’s been nearly 50 freaking days, I want a buy back, I’m done being patient and I want to talk to a Supervisor otherwise you’re going full public on their Social Media accounts.
 

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UPDATE: I just received a call from my Regional Customer Services Assistant that my Buy Back was approved!!! He said I will be hearing from the RAV Department in 3-5 business days. Also, after hearing from them, the dealership calls me and tells me they finished work on the vehicle...lol. I'll pick up vehicle tomorrow and just wait it out for this RAV process. I think I'll be looking for vehicles online to see what I can swap too.

Some additional questions:

1) The MSRP swap is for a NEW vehicle, correct?

2) For the MSRP swap, is there a dollar amount Ford finds negligible with the MSRP swap? Let's say I swap for the exact same model and package, but obviously the 2020 version is slightly more expensive (i.e. 1.5K), am I responsible for that amount or will they help me with that?

3) Since I am approved for the buy-back, will they also offer me a refund? I am now also opting for a return and refund since the car deals are so good right now. If I can get 0% APR that would totally be worth it.

4) IS the refund process any longer?

Thanks for all your assistance and continued assistance as I'm sure I'll have more questions with this process as RAV contacts me.
 
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UPDATE: I just received a call from my Regional Customer Services Assistant that my Buy Back was approved!!! He said I will be hearing from the RAV Department in 3-5 business days. Also, after hearing from them, the dealership calls me and tells me they finished work on the vehicle...lol. I'll pick up vehicle tomorrow and just wait it out for this RAV process. I think I'll be looking for vehicles online to see what I can swap too.

Some additional questions:

1) The MSRP swap is for a NEW vehicle, correct?

2) For the MSRP swap, is there a dollar amount Ford finds negligible with the MSRP swap? Let's say I swap for the exact same model and package, but obviously the 2020 version is slightly more expensive (i.e. 1.5K), am I responsible for that amount or will they help me with that?

3) Since I am approved for the buy-back, will they also offer me a refund? I am now also opting for a return and refund since the car deals are so good right now. If I can get 0% APR that would totally be worth it.

4) IS the refund process any longer?

Thanks for all your assistance and continued assistance as I'm sure I'll have more questions with this process as RAV contacts me.
1) Yes, if opting for a Buy Back vehicle replacement, it HAS to be a brand new Ford product.

2) If opting for a Buy Back vehicle replacement and the new vehicle replacement MSRP is $1.5k higher, you’re responsible for that amount (either by cash, credit or by rolling it into a loan). You’re also responsible for State Sales Tax on the $1.5k. You can ask your Ford RAV Rep if they will waive the delta due to your prolonged scenario, but there’s no guarantee they will budge.

3) When offered and approved for a Buy Back, once you get assigned a RAV Rep, you will be asked if you want a Buy Back Vehicle Replacement, or a Buy Back Refund. You can only go one way and once you decide and fill out the paperwork, that’s the course you took.

4) The entire RAV process can be anywhere from 2-3 weeks, or up to 1 month. It depends on Case load, how responsive your RAV Rep is, how soon you agree to RAV’s worksheet figures, if there is an existing vehicle loan to be dealt with, etc etc. Right now with the whole COVID19 in play, expect delays for sure.... it does not matter if you chose a vehicle replacement or refund, the process is similar with regards to length of time from authorization to returning the existing collateral.
 

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UPDATE: My Regional Customer Service Representative informed me last Thursday that RAV would contact me within a week. He just called to follow-up and I informed him they haven't. He apologized and stated he thinks they may be understaffed and said he would follow up in a week again. Is there any way I can reach RAV directly?
 

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I requested a buyback in January, after 4 visits for the engine ticking/knocking noise. Across the visits, they had the vehicle 38 days. The first visit was with an OD under 2,000 miles, and before any TSB/SSM about noises and oil changes. As I assumed would be the case, Ford rejected my request. However, they would not provide any documented reason why, only that it was rejected. Ford did say, if I didn't agree, I could seek resolution via BBB.

I started the BBB path in February, submitting all the documents, repair orders, emails, etc. After some back and forth with BBB, who was intern going back and forth with Ford, BBB suggested they assign an arbitrator and hold a formal arbitration.

I've now had my arbitration, and the arbitrator found in my favor, and the decision was to award a repurchase. Based on the arbitration paperwork, Ford had to accept the position of the arbitrator. While I've read about the Lemon Law, and how the RAV team works throughout this thread, I have not saw a lot of how the repurchase works via BBB arbitration. Is there a difference, or is Ford now required to follow the State lemon law repurchase rules?

The BBB paperwork looks like its a standard form, and it suggests I will now receive a summary of the repurchase from Ford within 10 days. However it suggests the use deduction is;

mileage/100,000 x sale price.

In my state, the Lemon Law for usage is

mileage/120,000 X purchase price, up to to first visit for issue.
mileage/120,000 X purchase price, up to to first visit for issue X 50%

Anyone have guidance of differences from this point with BBB award of repurchase, vs Ford accepting repurchase? Should it follow the same state lemon law guidelines regardless?
 
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UPDATE: My Regional Customer Service Representative informed me last Thursday that RAV would contact me within a week. He just called to follow-up and I informed him they haven't. He apologized and stated he thinks they may be understaffed and said he would follow up in a week again. Is there any way I can reach RAV directly?

I just completed my replacement with Ford. The process started with Ford Customer Service then they submitted a good faith estimate review on 3/24, approved on 4/1. First contact with RAV was on 4/2. We “closed” the deal on 4/23. Towards the end of everything they slowed their pace a lot and had delays in meeting the deadlines they stated. Overall it was an easy process just seriously time consuming. Still waitin g for them to pay off my other Mustang....
 
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I requested a buyback in January, after 4 visits for the engine ticking/knocking noise. Across the visits, they had the vehicle 38 days. The first visit was with an OD under 2,000 miles, and before any TSB/SSM about noises and oil changes. As I assumed would be the case, Ford rejected my request. However, they would not provide any documented reason why, only that it was rejected. Ford did say, if I didn't agree, I could seek resolution via BBB.

I started the BBB path in February, submitting all the documents, repair orders, emails, etc. After some back and forth with BBB, who was intern going back and forth with Ford, BBB suggested they assign an arbitrator and hold a formal arbitration.

I've now had my arbitration, and the arbitrator found in my favor, and the decision was to award a repurchase. Based on the arbitration paperwork, Ford had to accept the position of the arbitrator. While I've read about the Lemon Law, and how the RAV team works throughout this thread, I have not saw a lot of how the repurchase works via BBB arbitration. Is there a difference, or is Ford now required to follow the State lemon law repurchase rules?

The BBB paperwork looks like its a standard form, and it suggests I will now receive a summary of the repurchase from Ford within 10 days. However it suggests the use deduction is;

mileage/100,000 x sale price.

In my state, the Lemon Law for usage is

mileage/120,000 X purchase price, up to to first visit for issue.
mileage/120,000 X purchase price, up to to first visit for issue X 50%

Anyone have guidance of differences from this point with BBB award of repurchase, vs Ford accepting repurchase? Should it follow the same state lemon law guidelines regardless?
Yes, regardless of how you “won” a Lemon Buy Back case against Ford, Ford still must adhere to the Lemon Laws (Buy Back) as outlined by your Home State. Ford does not deviate from the US 50 State Lemon Laws. Any penalties for mileage usage for a Buy Back refund OR doc fees relating to a Buy Back vehicle replacement such as dmv fees, taxes for any deltas between MSRP’s, titling fees, other misc. fees, etc - that’s all implemented by and required by your Home State. Ford does not impose such fees on the vehicle owner, they are just following State-X Lemon Law. Ford also cannot circumvent any of the State Lemon Law fees, nor can Ford or Ford RAV adjust them.

The only “penalties” Ford can enforce and request payment for would be if the Collateral has any physical damages to exterior/interior, is missing anything it came with as built, glass damage or any mechanical damages outside of the unfixable documented warranty issue. The day you bring the car back to the Dealer is when the collateral will be inspected by the Dealership and they use Ford RAV guidelines as well as measures if damages are found. IF damages are found, the cost is Ford Retail parts cost and/or Ford Shop Labor Hours + parts. Ford RAV doesn’t really care about normal everyday use, but say there’s a 5” dent in the door - that would be an issue, or say glass is damaged with a crack going length of windshield...stuff like that won’t pass. Small dings, normal wear, etc. are no issues. There’s another thread on this site by me where I included the RAV Inspection info in more detail (search my user ID and “Ford RAV inspection” and you may find it.

———
What State are you in? The mileage use penalty should be the miles documented on the Ford invoice or work order from your very first visit of the initial complaint or warranty work. So take that mileage and use it in your calculation. I’m not sure why your State is showing 2 examples of the mileage use formula. Also be certain and verify that if the mileage use is applied to your specific scenario that you check all values used. Others have noted discrepancies on interim and final paperwork where the mileage used was wrong and would have cost them more $$$!
———

As far as going the BBB route vs. or going about it yourself w/o BBB, or with an LL Attorney, or w/o an LL Attorney - once you are “awarded” the Buy Back, the process from that point with Ford and Ford RAV is the same as much of what is outlined in this thread (and others with same subject matter).

Ford RAV has to send you the Buy Back package which will contain the docs you need to sign and return to RAV. So what you have read with regards to the paperwork processing, the RAV Worksheet process, the length of time from start to finish and having to keep up the communication between yourself and RAV is all the same.

The Ford Dealership is only the middle man or paperwork facilitator between you and Ford RAV, and to collect the Collateral. Don’t be surprised if your Dealership is not fully knowledgeable of the Ford RAV process. Some Dealerships have never processed a Ford RAV Buy Back, others are well versed and can help you along.

The only difference may be is that you have additional paperwork, notes or other docs due to you pursuing your efforts through the BBB and being awarded a “win”. Congrats!

So, if you would be so kind to keep the thread updated with your progress and any notes going the BBB route, it’s appreciated and will help others in the future who may need to use the BBB angle of approach.
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