The Beginning of Cooling Issues

[PoppinJ]

I have not seen concrete evidence that newer Coyotes/Voodoos/Predators run tighter and tighter clearances than previous Coyotes/Boss motors.

Also, Ford recommends oil for their engine based on certain operating parameters. Once those parameters are exceeded, the original recommendation is not as relevant. This can be seen by the fact that they recommended different oils for the same exact engine based on expected use and operating parameters.

Truth. This is also why the manuals recomend 5w 20 for daily driving but 5w 30 for track use.

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[bnightstar]

. However, I'm starting to pick up more speed at the track now and also starting to see higher engine oil temps.
My first plan will be to run 5w40 oil rather than 5w30 and see if that helps at all.

Ford are running 5W50 on there school cars and they still run oil cooler. So go with this for starters.

 

[Hack]

Indeed it is, but it is a balance you should try to maintain. Keep in mind that even though Motorcraft 5W50 used in the GT350/R starts out thick, it is known to shear down rapidly to a thin 40/thicker 30, so Ford's durability assessment is really based on that. Remember that oil pressure is resistance to flow. You should look for the thinnest oil you can get away with, that provides proper film thickness under heavy load.

So I was reading this and I need some clarification. Oil specs are (cold)W (hot) I believe. So I think that 5w 20 and 5w 50 are expected to perform just about identically at cold. But when the oil starts getting very hot the 5w 50 doesn't lose viscosity as quickly. Unless I'm not understanding, the two oils should be the same except the 5w 50 costs more and it will hold up to heat better.

I would think 5w 20 and 5w 50 are basically interchangeable as far as function goes - unless you are generating a lot of heat on track. And when you generate a lot of heat the 5w 50 gives your engine better protection.

Correct? Or no?

 

[EFI]

So I was reading this and I need some clarification. Oil specs are (cold)W (hot) I believe. So I think that 5w 20 and 5w 50 are expected to perform just about identically at cold. But when the oil starts getting very hot the 5w 50 doesn't lose viscosity as quickly. Unless I'm not understanding, the two oils should be the same except the 5w 50 costs more and it will hold up to heat better.

I would think 5w 20 and 5w 50 are basically interchangeable as far as function goes - unless you are generating a lot of heat on track. And when you generate a lot of heat the 5w 50 gives your engine better protection.

Correct? Or no?

No.

Even though they both are 5w, they are not the same viscosity when cold. This is because oils that need to thin out to 20 have a different composition than those that thin out to 50. For example, here are the specs of many of the Amsoil SS series of oils. Even though these highlighted are all 5w, look at the difference in cold viscosity. That's at 40* C per the standard guidelines, so at say 0* C the difference is even larger.

 

[Hack]

No.

Even though they both are 5w, they are not the same viscosity when cold. This is because oils that need to thin out to 20 have a different composition than those that thin out to 50. For example, here are the specs of many of the Amsoil SS series of oils. Even though these highlighted are all 5w, look at the difference in cold viscosity. That's at 40* C per the standard guidelines, so at say 0* C the difference is even larger.

Great info. Thanks! I wonder what the comparison of viscosity is at 0C. 40C is pretty hot. Seems like someone did a crappy job with oil viscosity naming standards and the 5w 50 should be called 10w 50 or something.

 

[AZHowln50]

Yes and If I were to get a do-over... I would get the Race Louver center vet and the Verus side vents... my biggest gripe with the Trackspec is that I think it is placed too far back. Based on my tuft testing, the majority of air is evacuated out my side vents with minimal activity out the center... I am willing to bet that if the center vent was placed further up (like the Race Louver is) I would get much better evacuation.

If the vents are able to mitigate the temps to a desired level, then you avoid the complications of an oil cooled setup (i.e. extra places for things to leak or go bad, oil temp not rising fast enough for street driving, etc...). I'm also not entirely convinced that the existing oil cooler solutions available may be all that much more helpful since it transfers load off of the radiator to a dedicated cooler which from what I have seen, gets placed right in front of the radiator. Well now you get oil cooled via air passing through the dedicated cooler, but now are introducing hot air into the radiator... not to mention that air tends to take the path of least resistance so if an oil cooler is mounted in front of the radiator, I would suspect air to want to flow around it. A dedicated oil cooler that is placed elsewhere could certainly be more beneficial in my opinion (like the GT350s), but that solution doesn't seem to be readily available and would require custom fabing.

I am looking into the venting options before adding coolers for Cooling and Aero benefits. For the Race Louver Center Vent for my 2019 Mustang which of the 4 versions would I need? I go to NASA HPDE Events and may try time trials later. I guess just get the NASA TT3 version?? I also live in AZ and daily drive car. Any cons to having the vents during a monsoon downpour? Thanks.

 

[AlbertD]

I am looking into the venting options before adding coolers for Cooling and Aero benefits. For the Race Louver Center Vent for my 2019 Mustang which of the 4 versions would I need? I go to NASA HPDE Events and may try time trials later. I guess just get the NASA TT3 version?? I also live in AZ and daily drive car. Any cons to having the vents during a monsoon downpour? Thanks.

I’m not familiar with the ruling for that group, but regardless the NASA version looks like it would work well. With the Trakspec center louver I had to build an under tray to divert rain. Otherwise rain would fall into the coil pack area. The Racelouver is installed a few inches forward so you may be ok without one, but I would get some input from others using that louver.

I’m typically out at the proautosports every month. If you ever attend an event feel free to stop by and say hello.

 

[Ewheels]

I am looking into the venting options before adding coolers for Cooling and Aero benefits. For the Race Louver Center Vent for my 2019 Mustang which of the 4 versions would I need? I go to NASA HPDE Events and may try time trials later. I guess just get the NASA TT3 version?? I also live in AZ and daily drive car. Any cons to having the vents during a monsoon downpour? Thanks.

The "TT3 Compliant" version is only needed if you're planning to take the BTM Aero modifier when calculating your class for Time Trials. The performance pack spoiler that comes on the car already disqualifies you for BTM Aero so I would get the RX Race Louver center vent as it adds the most cooling and reduces the most lift. I talked for a long time with Albert at Race Louvers who is also the American Iron national director about this.

 

[AZHowln50]

I’m not familiar with the ruling for that group, but regardless the NASA version looks like it would work well. With the Trakspec center louver I had to build an under tray to divert rain. Otherwise rain would fall into the coil pack area. The Racelouver is installed a few inches forward so you may be ok without one, but I would get some input from others using that louver.

I’m typically out at the proautosports every month. If you ever attend an event feel free to stop by and say hello.

Thanks and maybe I will see you out at the track.

 

[AZHowln50]

The "TT3 Compliant" version is only needed if you're planning to take the BTM Aero modifier when calculating your class for Time Trials. The performance pack spoiler that comes on the car already disqualifies you for BTM Aero so I would get the RX Race Louver center vent as it adds the most cooling and reduces the most lift. I talked for a long time with Albert at Race Louvers who is also the American Iron national director about this.

Perfect, that’s what I needed to know. Thanks for your response and I will go with the RX.

 

[JohnD]

And @AlbertD I know I've sent you a private message about this...rain. With the Race Louvers vent, would I not need to make a gutter system because it's forward of the engine?

I have the Race Louvers vent, been through a couple of gulley washers with it and no problems at all. I installed it per directions and did nothing else, whatever water gets in there does nothing to the engine. Also have the Verus side louvers and no issues from them either.

 

[AZHowln50]

I have the Race Louvers vent, been through a couple of gulley washers with it and no problems at all. I installed it per directions and did nothing else, whatever water gets in there does nothing to the engine. Also have the Verus side louvers and no issues from them either.

Any reason why most choose the Verus side Louvers over the Race Louvers side Louvers?? I am definitely set on getting Race Louvers vent just trying to get better info on side louvers. I DD and HPDE the car. Thanks.

 

[Hack]

Any reason why most choose the Verus side Louvers over the Race Louvers side Louvers?? I am definitely set on getting Race Louvers vent just trying to get better info on side louvers. I DD and HPDE the car. Thanks.

I think the Race Louvers side louvers are new and haven't been offered in the past. That's the only reason I can think of.

 

[JohnD]

Any reason why most choose the Verus side Louvers over the Race Louvers side Louvers?? I am definitely set on getting Race Louvers vent just trying to get better info on side louvers. I DD and HPDE the car. Thanks.

What he said, they weren't available yet. But I took some of the Race Louvers concepts and applied them to the Verus vents to hopefully increase their effectiveness. Think vane angles and wicker height.

 

[AZHowln50]

What he said, they weren't available yet. But I took some of the Race Louvers concepts and applied them to the Verus vents to hopefully increase their effectiveness. Think vane angles and wicker height.

I ordered the Race Louvers side vents and their RX Center Vent and will install when I receive. I will post pics when installed.

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