The Big Fat Track Car Cooling Thread

[Flyhalf]

Nice man. You will see suchba big drop in temps. Well done

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[AlbertD]

Nice man. You will see suchba big drop in temps. Well done

Thanks I was certainly inspired by your post. I haven't had a chance to do any aggressive driving, but I have noticed just driving around town this is going to be a worthwhile upgrade... CHT temps start going down to and stabilize at 190 as soon as the car starts getting up to speed. Before the duct I would normally see 200ish while cruising. I am ecstatic to see what that translates to when the car is operating 100% on track.

 

[HeelToeHero]

Who let the bots in?

 

[wazatataza]

Follow and bump.

I’ll upload some of my interventions soon

 

[SVO MkII]

I looked through all 27 pages of this thread and really didn't see the following issue addressed anywhere, so here goes. I understand the following points to be true (correct me if I'm wrong); 1) Engine oil temp (EOT) in inferred, not actual. 2) The ECU monitors the inferred EOT. 3) If the inferred EOT gets too high (yellow?), the ECU will invoke some form of power reduction (timing, boost, etc.). Based on this, adding an engine oil cooler will have little to no effect on what the ECU sees, and does, with respect to EOT. Actual EOT will decrease, which is good for the engine, but the ECU will believe the EOT is rising just as it did before the oil cooler was installed. This could cause the ECU to invoke power saving measures much earlier than it should, if it was based on actual EOT.

If this is true, how can you get the ECU to NOT start invoking power saving measures earlier than it needs to? Is this a parameter that can be modified with an aftermarket tune, such as a COBB? I'm guessing that based on all the S550 Mustangs being tracked, someone has a solution for this. Or, I am missing something significant here? Thanks.

(Note: I have posted this question Ecoboost threads. Sorry for any duplication, but I thought this thread seemed to have the biggest, best audience for this question.)

 

[Norm Peterson]

I think you'd at least have to know what data the EOT is being inferred from.


Norm

 

[Ewheels]

To my knowledge, the inferred EOT are calculated via run time, cylinder head temps, and a few other details. Adding an oil cooler will indirectly lower your CHTs so the calculated EOT will still lower.

Adding an oil cooler in front of your radiator is just a band aid though. You will cool your engine oil but you will be putting hot air into your radiator, thereby raising your coolant temps. Coolant and engine oil temps are very closely related.

Your best bet is to increase the airflow efficiency through the radiator, ie get hood vents and box in the radiator.

 

[SVO MkII]

To my knowledge, the inferred EOT are calculated via run time, cylinder head temps, and a few other details. Adding an oil cooler will indirectly lower your CHTs so the calculated EOT will still lower.

Adding an oil cooler in front of your radiator is just a band aid though. You will cool your engine oil but you will be putting hot air into your radiator, thereby raising your coolant temps. Coolant and engine oil temps are very closely related.

Your best bet is to increase the airflow efficiency through the radiator, ie get hood vents and box in the radiator.

That would seem logical, however, during a 30 min HPDE session, my coolant temp never moves beyond 12 o'clock, i.e., stays pegged right in the middle of the gauge. But the oil temp zips right to the yellow range after a few laps. Adding the Mishi oil cooler had almost no impact on the behavior of the coolant temp or the inferred oil temp. Even on a 60 deg ambient day at Road America, with 120-130 mph straights.

 

[HeelToeHero]

I heard the mishi oil cooler isn't adequate on its own. Not sure of that's true of the EcoBoost also...

 

[shogun32]

Adding the Mishi oil cooler had almost no impact on the behavior of the coolant temp or the inferred oil temp. Even on a 60 deg ambient day at Road America, with 120-130 mph straights.

how about if you throttle out on the straights? Have you boxed the radiators so air is forced thru instead of being allowed to just spill over?

 

[SVO MkII]

how about if you throttle out on the straights? Have you boxed the radiators so air is forced thru instead of being allowed to just spill over?

Yes, if I short shift, or use part throttle, the inferred oil temp will come down a bit. I'm guessing this is because engine rpm is one of the parameters used to calculate the inferred oil temp. No, I have not made any changes to the engine cooling system since the coolant temp never moves beyond the middle of the temp gauge. Since that is an ACTUAL temp, I know I don't have a coolant temp issue. As far as I can tell, the problem is the algorithm used to calculate the inferred oil temp, and the fact that it cannot recognize any changes to the oil cooling system. I'm guessing the custom tuners can alter the programming that invokes power saving mode based on the inferred oil temp.

With respect to coolant temp: Is it plausible that my overall coolant temp remains "normal" (which I assume is around 200), but the CHT climbs to say, 240? I have not been watching my CHT while on track, so I'm not sure where it has been running.

 

[Plimmer]

I looked through all 27 pages of this thread and really didn't see the following issue addressed anywhere, so here goes. I understand the following points to be true (correct me if I'm wrong); 1) Engine oil temp (EOT) in inferred, not actual. 2) The ECU monitors the inferred EOT. 3) If the inferred EOT gets too high (yellow?), the ECU will invoke some form of power reduction (timing, boost, etc.). Based on this, adding an engine oil cooler will have little to no effect on what the ECU sees, and does, with respect to EOT. Actual EOT will decrease, which is good for the engine, but the ECU will believe the EOT is rising just as it did before the oil cooler was installed. This could cause the ECU to invoke power saving measures much earlier than it should, if it was based on actual EOT.

If this is true, how can you get the ECU to NOT start invoking power saving measures earlier than it needs to? Is this a parameter that can be modified with an aftermarket tune, such as a COBB? I'm guessing that based on all the S550 Mustangs being tracked, someone has a solution for this. Or, I am missing something significant here? Thanks.

(Note: I have posted this question Ecoboost threads. Sorry for any duplication, but I thought this thread seemed to have the biggest, best audience for this question.)

I only know about GT 5.0, so others may be different:
1. EOT is calculated and I’ve noticed that engine rpm and time at WOT are big factors
2. Yes EOT is used in some calculations
3. In the GT tune it will first step down the rev limiter, does the same for ECT as well

only way I know to get around the ECM temperature protections is to tune them out

 

[HeelToeHero]

Yes, if I short shift, or use part throttle, the inferred oil temp will come down a bit. I'm guessing this is because engine rpm is one of the parameters used to calculate the inferred oil temp. No, I have not made any changes to the engine cooling system since the coolant temp never moves beyond the middle of the temp gauge. Since that is an ACTUAL temp, I know I don't have a coolant temp issue. As far as I can tell, the problem is the algorithm used to calculate the inferred oil temp, and the fact that it cannot recognize any changes to the oil cooling system. I'm guessing the custom tuners can alter the programming that invokes power saving mode based on the inferred oil temp.

With respect to coolant temp: Is it plausible that my overall coolant temp remains "normal" (which I assume is around 200), but the CHT climbs to say, 240? I have not been watching my CHT while on track, so I'm not sure where it has been running.

You need to watch CHT. My needle is dead center even with CHTs up in the 230F range. When I plugged in my obdii scanner I saw ECTS are close to cht.

 

[SVO MkII]

You need to watch CHT. My needle is dead center even with CHTs up in the 230F range. When I plugged in my obdii scanner I saw ECTS are close to cht.

OK. That's helpful. And I assume the turbo head could even get a bit warmer than a NA head. If the CHT is getting high, then yes, the oil temp is also high. I need to install a real oil temp gauge as well.

 

[shogun32]

I need to install a real oil temp gauge as well.

maybe something like this? http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-s...al-inline-oil-sensor-adapter-block-p-788.html

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