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2017 vs 2018 Mustang GT reliability

NoVaGT

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I’m would assume at minimum a water pump pulley. And like mentioned above they tested in most likely a cool room(not near as hot as an engine bay,etc), with the lack of a couple of pulleys is why it was coming right up to the 500 mark stock. They did run full exhaust but it seems the factory headers are pretty decent.

I honestly think some gen3 coyote engines are closer to 460 net and some are getting close to 480 given all the online Dyno numbers I have seen. As some have stated in the past Ford put 460 as the rated horsepower because it is most likely the minimum they have seen with the production tolerances...but I’m sure there are some that are more around 475ish.
So....they got 498HP.

If the engine was missing the alternator and A/C compressor, that's not much loss there. The A/C compressor only runs when it's on, and the alternator can't be that much drag.

So the other question is the water pump. I see a hose hooked-up to the water-pump outlet, but I can't see if there's a belt to the pump pulley.

As far as the air-box; they used an OEM air-box, and I'd bet it wasn't getting the right amount of incoming air, versus it being properly installed in the car, with the car moving. So I'd actually think it was missing a few HP there. The test being indoors probably means that the oxygen % in the room wasn't as high as outside on a nice day. The IATs on a moving 5.0 with the car moving is near ambient (that OEM CAI is truly a good bit of kit), so I think there's no loss or gain there.

Over-all, if there's positives with the lack of alternator and water-pump being driven by belts, and negatives from how the intake system was just hanging there, not in a car that's moving, and lower oxygen % inside a building versus outside on a nice day, I'd call those a wash.

I'm good with assuming the 498HP represents a normal power level for the GENIIIs.
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BmacIL

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So....they got 498HP.

If the engine was missing the alternator and A/C compressor, that's not much loss there. The A/C compressor only runs when it's on, and the alternator can't be that much drag.

So the other question is the water pump. But I see a hose hooked-up to the water-pump outlet, so I'm guessing it was used. But I can't see if there's a belt to the pump.

As far as the air-box; they used an OEM air-box, and I'd bet it wasn't getting the right amount of incoming air, versus it being properly installed in the car, with the car moving. So I'd actually think it was missing a few HP there. The test being indoors probably means that the oxygen % in the room wasn't as high as outside on a nice day. The IATs on a moving 5.0 with the car moving is near ambient (that OEM CAI is truly a good bit of kit), so I think there's no loss or gain there.

Over-all, if there's positives with the lack of alternator and water-pump being driven by belts, and negatives from how the intake system was just hanging there, not in a car that's moving, and lower oxygen % inside a building versus outside on a nice day, I'd call those a wash.

I'm good with assuming the 498HP represents a normal power level for the GENIIIs.
The combination of water pump, alternator and even AC compressor drag when not engaged is enough to be the delta between 498 and a ~460-470 hp engine. When Ford does its SAE rating, it is with all accessories and parasitics.
 

NoVaGT

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The combination of water pump, alternator and even AC compressor drag when not engaged is enough to be the delta between 498 and a ~460-470 hp engine. When Ford does its SAE rating, it is with all accessories and parasitics.
AFAIK, there's no AC compressor drag. They 100% free-wheel when the A/C is off, it's an electrical clutch that disengages. If you've ever had a new A/C compressor in your hands, and spun the pulley, you'd see that. Total free-wheel.

If you want to assume that the water pump and alternator are the difference, that's reasonable.

I'm wondering if the water pump and alternator represents 40HP in parasitic loss?

Seems high......but maybe not.

FYI, I've been watching a YT channel that discussed rotating assemblies, and there appears to be some new tech for the rings & piston skirt coatings that really lessons frictional losses.
 

2018GT

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AFAIK, there's no AC compressor drag. They 100% free-wheel when the A/C is off, it's an electrical clutch that disengages. If you've ever had a new A/C compressor in your hands, and spun the pulley, you'd see that. Total free-wheel.

If you want to assume that the water pump and alternator are the difference, that's reasonable.

I'm wondering if the water pump and alternator represents 40HP in parasitic loss?

Seems high......but maybe not.

FYI, I've been watching a YT channel that discussed rotating assemblies, and there appears to be some new tech for the rings & piston skirt coatings that really lessons frictional losses.
If this engine is one of the ‘better built’ production engines and it is closer to 475ish net then I can see the 498 without the accessories(23ish hp difference). And even though the ac clutch isn’t engaged it still takes a little bit of hp to spin it to 7k. I would think a couple of hp’s but of course that is a guess

so I don’t think it is far off the mark really.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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If this engine is one of the ‘better built’ production engines and it is closer to 475ish net then I can see the 498 without the accessories(23ish hp difference). And even though the ac clutch isn’t engaged it still takes a little bit of hp to spin it to 7k. I would think a couple of hp’s but of course that is a guess

so I don’t think it is far off the mark really.
I was going to say something like this. The water pump is probably 10 hp give or take, and the alternator very few, maybe 2-3 hp, same thing with the AC in off position. There also was a statement that nobody has caught onto that said the full exhaust wasn't hooked up: "With no full exhaust on tap, we went straight to JLT's cold air intake for 2018 Coyote Mustangs". While that statement doesn't make a lot of sense (as if the exhaust as anything to do with the intake they chose), I think they meant they went through the cats and then nothing. Essentially, the engine without the catback; adding the rest of the exhaust is going to reduce hp significantly.

All told:
Lack of a catback: ~20 hp
Water pump: ~10 hp
Alternator/AC: ~5 hp combined.
Total: ~35 hp

497 hp - 35 hp = 462 crank hp accounting for parasitic losses of those items. Which items are actually installed on this engine is not certain so that number could be higher. Assuming only the catback is missing, then 477 hp sounds reasonable and right in line with the power I think most Gen 3 Coyotes produce.

That said, they did say the engine dyno results were 60 hp higher than previous Gen coyotes. I don't know if that's from their experience dynoing them in the past, or simply compared to what Ford rated the engines at (Gen 2 = 435 hp).

I wish whomever wrote the article was more forthcoming with what or wasn't installed on the engine.
 

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onlyturbo

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buying brand new is the most retarded thing to do money wise... and i am a finance manager on a dealership lol.

be the 2nd owner... buy low miles, still have the warranty
Agree!
 

hlh1

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buying brand new is the most retarded thing to do money wise... and i am a finance manager on a dealership lol.

be the 2nd owner... buy low miles, still have the warranty
Except when you get $8k+ in discounts off MSRP.
 

BmacIL

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Meatball

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Regarding power, it's more reliable to use trap speed from a corrected, standardized method than separate random dyno pulls. Car and Driver, who uses standardized methods and corrections, got the following trap speeds for manual S550s: (Gen II) 113, 112, 113, 112; (Gen III) 115, 114, 114. Since power-to-weight is dominant in a very similar car comparison with broadly similar transmissions, and the weights are in the same range, it works out to about a 30-35 hp advantage for the Gen III, which seems about right. If it were much bigger we'd see a much bigger difference in drag race trap speeds between the two and between stock 16+ Camaros. But for drag racing, the biggest advantage of the GenIII is that awesome potential with E85, long tube headers and a tune, esp with that A10.
 

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5.0S550

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Regarding power, it's more reliable to use trap speed from a corrected, standardized method than separate random dyno pulls. Car and Driver, who uses standardized methods and corrections, got the following trap speeds for manual S550s: (Gen II) 113, 112, 113, 112; (Gen III) 115, 114, 114. Since power-to-weight is dominant in a very similar car comparison with broadly similar transmissions, and the weights are in the same range, it works out to about a 30-35 hp advantage for the Gen III, which seems about right. If it were much bigger we'd see a much bigger difference in drag race trap speeds between the two and between stock 16+ Camaros. But for drag racing, the biggest advantage of the GenIII is that awesome potential with E85, long tube headers and a tune, esp with that A10.
That also doesn't tell the whole story as the 18+ m82 slowed the car down.

The stock gen 2's are normally 350-360wtq while gen 3's are normally 390-400wtq and yet the gen 3 is only rated for 20 more at the crank. Stock manual gen 3's dyno around 420-430whp, stock manual gen 2's are around 365-375whp.

The gen 3 is underrated the manual is slower for other reasons. It's slower for the same reason the a10 is faster just backwards lol. Less gearing and wider ratios compared to the 15-17.

But I don't know what any of this has to do with 17 vs 18 reliability.
 
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ChitownStang

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I'm not sure that was true for me back in 15. All depends what options you buy and discount.
I factory ordered my 15 premium gt, sticker $37,200 for $33,200
A little under 5 years later dealer trade in value is $21K and I owe $6400 on a 6 year loan
If you don't count the $10k I've blown on "never get money back mods" I think I'm in good shape for buying new knowing the last guy didn't beat on my car.


buying brand new is the most retarded thing to do money wise... and i am a finance manager on a dealership lol.

be the 2nd owner... buy low miles, still have the warranty
 

Meatball

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That also doesn't tell the whole story as the 18+ m82 slowed the car down.
Longer gears (within reason) aren't as big a deal in trap speed as in, for example, 0-60. C&D got 116mph+ for the manual 6g Camaro and it's advertised with 455hp, and it has taller gears than the mt82-d4 (and a 3.73 rear end). And the difference isn't the torque...that doesn't matter as much as hp with car launched at the proper rpm. It's not that your 2018 has 60 more stock hp than the GenII (and 40 more than an LT1), it doesn't, but your 10-speed keeps the power on that flat high rpm power peak, so it stays at peak power almost the whole time. It's pretty awesome. That's why C&D got 120mph for the 2018 auto, 5-6mph faster than the manual, and they know how to drive manuals...
 

seth21w

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Well there is a huge leap in technology from 15-17 to 18-20 and with that tech it will be harder to work on yourself and more things to go wrong engine and trans. So if you are a DIY er like myself I chose a base 16gtpp but if you will be trading it in when the 3 year warranty expires go for it but the 18-20 will be from 5 to 10k money. I say find you a nice 16 or 17.
 

NoVaGT

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....a statement that nobody has caught onto that said the full exhaust wasn't hooked up: "With no full exhaust on tap, we went straight to JLT's cold air intake for 2018 Coyote Mustangs".....
Yeah, I see in the pictures there's OEM headers and cats, and more exhaust. I can't tell if it's the full exhaust, with resonator and mufflers and such.
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