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Swaybar End-link and Suspension height

Hadelson

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I'm running Steeda F/R Sway Bars and adjustable end links. I set up by measuring bar angle with OEM components and then installed new bars and links to same angle. Car is flat through turns and with neutral steering. Extremely predictable, etc.

Question on end link and overall length.

1. How does making them longer and shorted affect under/oversteer?
2. How does adjusting end links longer and shorter affect suspension height?
3. How does adjusting end links longer or shorter affect suspension travel? Harsher, softer or no change?
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BmacIL

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Assuming the lengths are the same L and R or such that there is no preload on the swaybar, the length doesn't really affect any of that.
 

fatbillybob

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I'm running Steeda F/R Sway Bars and adjustable end links. I set up by measuring bar angle with OEM components and then installed new bars and links to same angle. Car is flat through turns and with neutral steering. Extremely predictable, etc.

Question on end link and overall length.

1. How does making them longer and shorted affect under/oversteer? DOES NOT EFFECT. Bar rate effects OS US
2. How does adjusting end links longer and shorter affect suspension height? DOES NOT EFFECT
3. How does adjusting end links longer or shorter affect suspension travel? Harsher, softer or no change? DOES NOT EFFECT
The reason for an adjustable endlink does not jive with the oem designed mustang suspension because the mustang suspension does not adjust. When you have a fully adjustable suspension stock like in a corvette or a fully adjustable aftermarket mustang suspension you 1st set your projected ride heights and then corner balance the car with sways not connected and then align the car. Then you reconnect the endlinks. The problem is nothing is perfect side to side. I bet you have one eye higher than the other or one arm longer than the other or your nose points more left or right. This is totally normal and the car has the same defects that we call normal. So you need 1 adjustable endlink on one side so that you are not adding in any additional wheel rate while going straight over the fictional perfectly flat road. You only want the added wheel rate of the bar in a turn thus anti-roll bar. Now you can add wheel rate with a bar by altering a single endlink and adding what is called preload into the bar. This is effectively weight jacking. NASCAR parlance is adding subtracting wedge. That means you effectively have added a spring rate you can calculate. There are better ways to do this in a pinch like with a spring packer. You only need 2 adjustable endlinks under some conditions. Really what is needed is just one adjuster on either side.
 

NightmareMoon

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As BmacIL said, the endlinks don’t do any of that (with caveats for the bound PP front swaybar), but you did well trying to match the stock geometry with the new endlinks. Geometry being off might have small effects, but endlinks aren’t used to tune handling.

1) endlinks are not used for that, adjustable bars (with multiple holes) do this.
2) no effect
3) no effect

endlinks are to help with fit and hopefully they don’t bend as easily as the stock bars. Thats about it.
 

fatbillybob

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(with caveats for the bound PP front swaybar).
I forgot I read about that. Is there an aftermarket solution to keep the PP1 bar and cut off the bound bar mount for a free swinging mount? It seems like there are an infinite number of things for racers to fix on this car. It is a dorky design to have sway bar rate and an unknown bound rubber bushing rate. I hear there is a rubber bushing in the rear suspension like that. I have not gone there yet either but I will as I develop my chassis.
 

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NightmareMoon

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I forgot I read about that. Is there an aftermarket solution to keep the PP1 bar and cut off the bound bar mount for a free swinging mount? It seems like there are an infinite number of things for racers to fix on this car. It is a dorky design to have sway bar rate and an unknown bound rubber bushing rate. I hear there is a rubber bushing in the rear suspension like that. I have not gone there yet either but I will as I develop my chassis.
Its academic - There are plenty of aftermarket bars out there if you want a non-bound option, and switching to freely rotating mounts would only lower your effective bar rates. IMHO it drives well enough (for a stock bar on a mass market car). For whatever reason the Ford engineers put it in there (who know the true rate graph), the car doesn't drive any worse for it.

There are bound bushings all over the place in cars. The rear bar doesn't have any, but both the front and rear suspension do have a few. Serious racers will probably replace many of those, but on a grand touring road car they help keep things quiet.
 

fatbillybob

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Nope. Racers try and control everything. Stichion in all forms is bad.
 

BmacIL

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I forgot I read about that. Is there an aftermarket solution to keep the PP1 bar and cut off the bound bar mount for a free swinging mount? It seems like there are an infinite number of things for racers to fix on this car. It is a dorky design to have sway bar rate and an unknown bound rubber bushing rate. I hear there is a rubber bushing in the rear suspension like that. I have not gone there yet either but I will as I develop my chassis.
The car needs a stiffer front bar anyway, so get that. The non-pp bar is identical except for the bushings and brackets.
 

fatbillybob

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The car needs a stiffer front bar anyway, so get that. The non-pp bar is identical except for the bushings and brackets.
Yes. It looks like the Ford track bar set M5490E is no longer available and is now M5490G. There are many bar options but I am limited by my race class rules.
 

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When I put my Steeda Front and rear sway bars on I also put Steeda’s adj front and rear sway bar end links. I adjusted the length to match the factory non adjustable PP sway bar links. Seems to ride and drive fine.
 

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I have never disconnected a front swaybar that was not under "stress", vehicle on a lift. I will be replacing my front swaybar as soon as the weather clears up. So my question is if I've measured my adjustables as close as possible to the OEM and the bar is under stress can/should I adjust one side to alleviate the stress?
 

Bahndvr

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Yes. Leave one side's nut off and adjust length so that you can slip it in/out of the bar hole with both wheels on the ground.
Thanks
 

fatbillybob

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Unless you have some experience doing this, when complete, jack the car up so you can see and make sure you still have a decent amount of threads left in the body if the loose end was made bigger. Sometimes weird things happen because a bar is sort of tweeked. If a bolt is 10mm diameter I want at least 10mm in the body.
 

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Sure. It will probably be in the air a couple of times. I will check on the ground and up on the lift.
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