Dave Pericak speaks a bit about the Mustang's future

[Qcman17]

My father-in-law was a Sr level executive at TVA until he retired a few years ago. I think most would be shocked to learn how woefully unprepared we are to support the power requirements needed to support even 20% of the vehicles on the road moving to electric. The summer day time load on the power grid is already extremely high due to air conditioning use. We catch up by generating at night when the draw is low. When EV's become popular the night-time catch-up will cease because that is when everyone will plug in. Electricity prices will soar, which will reduce EV use, I suppose, so it will self-correct a little. Given the difficulty associated with opening new power plants, we will likely see rolling chronic power shortages Worldwide. We are electrifying EVERYTHING now.

Petroleum is supply source for energy. The demand for energy is not going to be reduced.

I agree with you about the power availability. The company I work for is a materials operation think stone and asphalt for roadways. Currently in the summer we often get a call from the local power authority with a request that we shut down in exchange for a fee paid to us because we require so much power during peak hours. It is usually in the amount of many thousands of dollars for each instance.

So to me the grids are already stressed and we haven't added EV's into the mix yet in any significant way.

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[Norm Peterson]

Exactly... You do not have to completely tear the battery apart to reuse it... With the increase in home solar and energy storage, a market does exist for these recycled EV batteries to be used.

Agreed, but with a caveat or two.

I imagine that over time those batteries will become unacceptable in their first downgraded application as well.

Beyond that, there's almost certainly limits on how many times the use of these batteries can be downgraded before they aren't good for anything at all. And there's probably limits on the number of places that can re-use these batteries in down-rated condition. I'm not at all sure I'd want a stack of those things around my house (let alone in it) to help support a solar panel installation, never mind what I might have to go through to replace those when they degrade too far for even my use.


Norm

 

[zackmd1]

I agree with you about the power availability. My company is a materials operation think stone and asphalt for roadways. Currently in the summer we often get a call from the local power authority with a request that we shut down in exchange for a fee paid to us because we require so much power during peak hours. It is usually in the amount of many thousands of dollars for each instance.

So to me the grids are already stressed and we haven't added EV's into the mix yet in any significant way.

Again, your statement would be true aside from the fact that the grid is constantly expanding... New power stations come online every year. Add to that the increase of so called "micro-grids" with home solar and energy storage, supplying power to meet EV demand shouldn't be a significant issue. It is not like every car on the street will be an EV 5 years from now.... Maybe 20+ years you would have more then 50% being an EV but its not going to happen at a pace that the grid would not be able to keep up....

 

[Norm Peterson]

This number will only get better as the grid turns towards more renewable and clean energy sources.

Does anybody stop to consider that there are finite limits to those sources, or that at least some of them bring on other adverse environmental consequences?

It might be theoretically wonderful if energy could be harvested more directly from climate change, but even that is finite, and it would be at least possible to over-do even that.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not so much. There are still plenty of things I can do on the Model 3 on my own. The difference is how much LESS stuff I need to do. I won't have to replace the brakes for another 100k miles or so because of regen braking, I don't have to do oil changes, engine air filter replacements, belt replacements, etc... The biggest things I will be doing to the 3 are tire rotations and cabin air filter replacements. So its not so much that you cant work on it, its that you don't HAVE to work on it as much.

So what if you didn't particularly like the 'feel' of the OE braking system(s)? Or the transition from regen to friction? Do you even have any options here?

Sure, less maintenance. Also fewer opportunities to prompt you into looking at other things that might not be on the same (or any) schedule.

I don't know how well those heavy-power cable connections stand up resistance-wise. Or how or even if there's anything you could reasonably do about any degradation. I would put something like that in the same category as spark plug replacement for an ICE.


Norm

 

[zackmd1]

So what if you didn't particularly like the 'feel' of the OE braking system(s)? Or the transition from regen to friction? Do you even have any options here?

Turn Regen braking off in driving settings and replace brakes as needed.

I don't know how well those heavy-power cable connections stand up resistance-wise. Or how or even if there's anything you could reasonably do about any degradation. I would put something like that in the same category as spark plug replacement for an ICE

There is a major difference between a high energy pulse going though a small conductor thousands of times a min vs a fairly constant current going through a properly sized cable. It is most certainly NOT in the same category. The high voltage lines in these vehicles are lifetime parts. Not meant to need replacing every 50-100k miles.

 

[zackmd1]

Does anybody stop to consider that there are finite limits to those sources, or that at least some of them bring on other adverse environmental consequences?

It might be theoretically wonderful if energy could be harvested more directly from climate change, but even that is finite, and it would be at least possible to over-do even that.


Norm

Green/renewable energy doesn't just include solar and wind.... Nuclear (fission and fusion) should also be included in that category. And no, not the reactors and power plants from the 50s that you are used to that bring on "other adverse environmental consequences". SMRs and molten salt reactors for fission and the potential of fusion power plants in the near future.

 

[Qcman17]

Again, your statement would be true aside from the fact that the grid is constantly expanding... New power stations come online every year. Add to that the increase of so called "micro-grids" with home solar and energy storage, supplying power to meet EV demand shouldn't be a significant issue. It is not like every car on the street will be an EV 5 years from now.... Maybe 20+ years you would have more then 50% being an EV but its not going to happen at a pace that the grid would not be able to keep up....

What you note could very well be correct I was just pointing out that the grid is already under a lot of stress perhaps more than people realize. And no one has ever offered us thousands of dollars to not use fuel on any given day. I think if the growth is fairly slow and linear the infrastructure will likely adapt along with it but if there is a sudden large uptick in the use of EV's it could be interesting.

 

[LSchicago]

I'm stunned at the replies here of people paying interest on their loans.

Ya'll know Ford does 0% on Mustangs in the fall, right?

In lieu of rebates.....

 

[Norm Peterson]

Turn Regen braking off in driving settings and replace brakes as needed.

"As needed" is separate from "as desired". Is there likely to be a big enough market for pads with stronger bite on EVs to make a strong enough business case for any pad mfr to go there?

There is a major difference between a high energy pulse going though a small conductor thousands of times a min vs a fairly constant current going through a properly sized cable. It is most certainly NOT in the same category. The high voltage lines in these vehicles are lifetime parts. Not meant to need replacing every 50-100k miles.

Not the lines themselves, or even just the connectors. I'm looking at connection resistance and its effect on power developed.


Norm

 

[SkyBlast]

"What we would never do is compromise," he declared. "If it's a Mustang, it'll be a Mustang. Whatever is offered will be a Mustang and live up to the Mustang expectation."

Well nobody in their right mind would expect the Mustang Mach E to be called a Mustang.. it certainly does not live up to a Mustang enthusiast's expectations... why they didn't just call it "Mustang Inspired" with the name "Mach E" I'll never know..

 

[shogun32]

Not the lines themselves, or even just the connectors. I'm looking at connection resistance and its effect on power developed.

go look at a datacenter UPS battery pack connector. The automotive world uses something similar - basically a mini bus bar.

 

[Norm Peterson]

go look at a datacenter UPS battery pack connector. The automotive world uses something similar - basically a mini bus bar.

Somewhere there needs to be a bolted-down connection of some sort, right?

The automotive environment is much harsher than any [indoor] datacenter would ever be permitted to become.


Norm

 

[GT350Obsession]

First off, I want to say that I love all of you guys. Much respect to this community of Mustang owners.

But we have to walk in each other's shoes to truly understand what's at play. A true "hipster" doesn't give a damn about Starbucks or what's considered by the masses to be "cool". Hipsters enjoy the "feelings" behind highly involved experiences or anything that feels authentic. An example would be changing one's own oil, manually grinding their own coffee, listening to vinyl, wearing hand-me-down clothing, you get the point...maybe.

I'm 29 and I'm all the way with you guys on the whole dumb ass vaping movement. For the record, I hate Starbucks and my wife loves it. I'm living in SLC, at the moment, witnessing a bunch of vapesters around my age, riding around in riced up Subarus that try too hard to sound like V8s with custom exhausts. I digress, but my point (and Pericak's) is that we all have to "feel" something when we get into a car. I'm looking for that feeling of a manual mated to a flat plane crank, because I know that there will never be another like it...atmosphere be damned.

With that being said, something's gotta give. If I'm raised to love cars, but to also love earth, then there are obviously compromises to be made, right? It sucks, but younger generations will be/have been forced to be more creative in the ways they approach the balance between design, practicality, fun, haptics, etc. The reality is that industry has taken a toll on the environment, but finding this balance has been the beauty of industrialism and technology evolution for as long as we've been alive. It's easy to say that everything is going to sh*t when everything you know and love begins to become rare, BUT that's exactly what makes it so beautiful. I know I wouldn't be interested in the GT350R if everyone else drove one.

 

[Norm Peterson]

With that being said, something's gotta give. If I'm raised to love cars, but to also love earth, then there are obviously compromises to be made, right?

Of course.

The problem comes in the matter of establishing compromise points that are acceptable - ideally meaning equally acceptable - to all parties concerned.

Whether that can be achieved is a whole 'nother question.


Norm

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