Is it now between Bernie and Bloomberg?

[watisthis]

@lacanteen, with my little knowledge on most of these subject and wanting to be transparent, I agree with your points. There is a lot of bureaucracy in many of the government programs that leads them to not be as effective as they could be. Most of it is due to corporate influence.

The IRS is a good example. All of the major tax filers like H&R block and whoever else actually lobbied the US government to make it illegal for the IRS to create its own online system for filing.

The VA, contrary to what many say, is actually very effective. I go to the VA once or twice a month in Baltimore, it really isn't all that bad aside from waiting a little bit longer as some people need extra time for whatever issue they may have, but thats just me I assume others have had the a terrible experience. No one should die while waiting for healthcare in the worlds richest country.

When it comes to medicare it is not only one of the most efficient programs the US has, but it is also one of the most loved. When polling seniors medicare constantly gets high approval ratings.

I can't say that Bernie or anyone has the answer to solving the abundant fraud as I believe that's a deeper problem in general. Maybe covering everyone will mean that there will be less fraud but who knows for sure. Its definitely a problem we need to solve in general.

Sponsored

 

[watisthis]

Didn't say it was subsidized, it was created by the US government and is overseen by the US government. Here's the intro from Wikipedia:

The United States Postal Service (USPS; also known as the Post Office, U.S. Mail, or Postal Service) is an independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government responsible for providing postal service in the United States, including its insular areas and associated states. It is one of the few government agencies explicitly authorized by the United States Constitution.

The USPS traces its roots to 1775 during the Second Continental Congress, when Benjamin Franklin was appointed the first postmaster general. The Post Office Department was created in 1792 with the passage of the Postal Service Act. It was elevated to a cabinet-level department in 1872, and was transformed by the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 into the United States Postal Service as an independent agency.[4]

The USPS as of 2017 has 644,124 active employees in 2014. The USPS is legally obligated to serve all Americans, regardless of geography, at uniform price and quality. The USPS has exclusive access to letter boxes marked "U.S. Mail" and personal letterboxes in the United States, but now has to compete against private package delivery services, such as United Parcel Service, FedEx, and Amazon.[5]

Since the early 1980s, many of the direct tax subsidies to the Post Office, with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters, have been reduced or eliminated, in addition to the advantages associated with a government-enforced monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail.[6] Since the 2006 all-time peak mail volume,[7] after which Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act[8] which mandated that $5.5 billion per year be paid to fully prefund employee retirement health benefits,[9] revenue dropped sharply due to recession-influenced[10] declining mail volume,[11] prompting the postal service to look to other sources of revenue while cutting costs to reduce its budget deficit

The government founded it, influenced it, oversees it, and it's as effed up as the Feds. Doing business with the USPS is as convoluted as the Fed. USPS may not be US family but they are step siblings by default in the way it was created and handed off.

USPS is an independent agency, congress sets its mandate through legislation and the president appoints its senior management. However, runts its own affairs. They are required by law to be revenue generation i.e. they don't get money from tax revenue they have to raise it themselves through business. They operate purely by postage and now deals with Amazon and the like.

NASA is also an independent agency, but it isn't revenue independent. I hope this helps.

 

[lacanteen]

When it comes to medicare it is not only one of the most efficient programs the US has, but it is also one of the most loved. [URL='https://www.asaging.org/blog/medicare-reflected-public-opinion']When polling seniors medicare constantly gets high approval ratings.[/URL]

I can't say that Bernie or anyone has the answer to solving the abundant fraud as I believe that's a deeper problem in general. Maybe covering everyone will mean that there will be less fraud but who knows for sure. Its definitely a problem we need to solve in general.

I am not in a position to agree or disagree as to how good it is. As with all things, there are good experiences and bad experiences.As for Medicare, I believe Bernie is wanting to fix something that isn't broken. If the poor and under served need help, by all means let's look at a more efficient way to help. Upending 20% of our GDP (healthcare) will torpedo our economy.

What is broken, is our immigration policy. Bernie wants to eliminate ICE and CBP, then what? Be specific, please.

 

[watisthis]

I am not in a position to agree or disagree as to how good it is. As with all things, there are good experiences and bad experiences.As for Medicare, I believe Bernie is wanting to fix something that isn't broken. If the poor and under served need help, by all means let's look at a more efficient way to help. Upending 20% of our GDP (healthcare) will torpedo our economy.

What is broken, is our immigration policy. Bernie wants to eliminate ICE and CBP, then what? Be specific, please.

As SilverBullit said earlier 90% of the country is covered but we forget a lot are underinsured meaning they have health insurance but because of high deductibles and high out of pocket expenses their insurance is virtually useless.

It comes down to morality, in the riches country in the history, should there even be a single person who doesn't have health care? Is health care a right or just a privilege? Access to healthcare is bullshit, I have access to a Lamborghini dealership but can I afford it?

Upending 20% of our GDP (healthcare) will torpedo our economy.

Could you elaborate more on this?

What is broken, is our immigration policy. Bernie wants to eliminate ICE and CBP, then what? Be specific, please.

Agreed our immigration policy is broken. Bernie wants to remove ICE and CBP and redistribute their functions back to their proper authorities. Basically dismantle the government constructed police raids using fears generated by 9/11 as their rationale. These measures cost way too much money and have shown to not make anyone any safer.

The appearance of security, Eisenhower warned us about it.

I commented on this earlier in this thread, pretty sure it was this thread. Anyway, is there anything specific maybe something specifically you don't like? I'm unsure about a few things mainly his stance on timeline.

 

[lacanteen]

Agreed our immigration policy is broken. Bernie wants to remove ICE and CBP and redistribute their functions back to their proper authorities.

What does that mean? Before CBP, it was US Customs Service.

In these "raids" have any US citizens been harmed? What do we do with undocumented illegals? Send them to our schools, give them food stamps and welfare while citizen veterans live in the streets? Why do illegals get more aid than our own citizens? How does anyone justify that? There is a right way to come here. Sneaking in and planting a flag isn't it. Try doing that anywhere else in this world. When I visited Jamaica for 3 weeks I had to have the right documents to get out of the airport. After 14 days, Jamaican authorities verified that I was still at the resort I said I'd be at. It was informal, but it was a check.

Slip into Mexico with no documents and try to set up a life. Let me know what happens.

I'd like to see sanctuary cities and states be held accountable, legally, meaning they can be sued, if they release known undocumented criminals that cause others harm. If they weren't released, the harm would not have happened. Direct cause and effect.

So, "Abolish ICE and CBP and redistribute their functions back to their proper authorities" isn't a plan, it's a sound bite. A chicken in every pot, a Mustang in every garage. Empty words, no plan.

 

[lacanteen]

Upending 20% of our GDP (healthcare) will torpedo our economy.

Could you elaborate more on this?

Really? All of the people in the health insurance industry losing jobs, not making money, can't pay bills, losing houses & cars, going on welfare, unemployment, and food stamps would be a good thing? Doctors quitting, firing patients driving patients to public hospitals won't overwhelm the system? The support for doctors such as nurses PAs, office managers NPs, and the building space they will no longer rent is good? How about the restaurants that cater to the doctor's offices? The stores and shops where they buy coffee on the way to work and their beer on the way home, what happens to them when revenues fall? That's how a free market works.

There's no way a sane congress or president would advocate for this. IT'S ELECTION FODDER. Accept it for what it is. It sounds good but will never work

 

[watisthis]

Really? All of the people in the health insurance industry losing jobs, not making money, can't pay bills, losing houses & cars, going on welfare, unemployment, and food stamps would be a good thing? Doctors quitting, firing patients driving patients to public hospitals won't overwhelm the system? The support for doctors such as nurses PAs, office managers NPs, and the building space they will no longer rent is good? How about the restaurants that cater to the doctor's offices? The stores and shops where they buy coffee on the way to work and their beer on the way home, what happens to them when revenues fall? That's how a free market works.

There's no way a sane congress or president would advocate for this. IT'S ELECTION FODDER. Accept it for what it is. It sounds good but will never work

It literally works everywhere else, lmao. I went over this earlier in the thread with you. This isn't just going to implode the healthcare industry.

Also, https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-14/medicare-for-all-cost

 

[lacanteen]

It literally works everywhere else, lmao. I went over this earlier in the thread with you. This isn't just going to implode the healthcare industry.

Also, https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-14/medicare-for-all-cost

Here's the other side. I read your source, read mine. There are unrealistic assumptions in the M4A proposal.
.
As Blahous wrote in the fourth sentence of his abstract, “It is likely that the actual cost of M4A would be substantially greater than these estimates, which assume significant administrative and drug cost savings under the plan, and also assume that health care providers operating under M4A will be reimbursed at rates more than 40 percent lower than those currently paid by private health insurance.”

Blahous used the text of Sanders’ bill to guide assumptions. For example, he said, the bill says health care providers will be reimbursed for patients at Medicare payment rates. Blahous said Medicare payment rates are projected by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to be roughly 40 percent lower than those paid by private insurers, so he built those assumed savings into his estimate.


https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/the-cost-of-medicare-for-all/

 

[watisthis]

Here's the other side. I read your source, read mine. There are unrealistic assumptions in the M4A proposal.
.
As Blahous wrote in the fourth sentence of his abstract, “It is likely that the actual cost of M4A would be substantially greater than these estimates, which assume significant administrative and drug cost savings under the plan, and also assume that health care providers operating under M4A will be reimbursed at rates more than 40 percent lower than those currently paid by private health insurance.”

Blahous used the text of Sanders’ bill to guide assumptions. For example, he said, the bill says health care providers will be reimbursed for patients at Medicare payment rates. Blahous said Medicare payment rates are projected by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to be roughly 40 percent lower than those paid by private insurers, so he built those assumed savings into his estimate.


https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/the-cost-of-medicare-for-all/

"The Koch brothers have donated millions of dollars to George Mason University’s Mercatus Center, and Charles Koch sits on the center’s board of directors."

Yeah, the Koch brothers-funded study, excuse me if I'm a tad bit hesitant to believe that. Repealing the fairness doctrine has easily been one of the worst things ever when it comes to this.

Better yet, why do we spend as much on public healthcare as the rest of the OECD with significantly less coverage. Surely it is insane to expand a program that's wasteful and inefficient unless of course, you are profiting from it.

https://www.kff.org/health-costs/is...nited-states-selected-oecd-countries_chart10/

 

[lacanteen]

"

Better yet, why do we spend as much on public healthcare as the rest of the OECD with significantly less coverage. Surely it is insane to expand a program that's wasteful and inefficient unless of course, you are profiting from it.
/

That's an excellent point and an easy answer. Our legal system: tort law. Fix that and the market will adjust.

 

[watisthis]

That's an excellent point and an easy answer. Our legal system: tort law. Fix that and the market will adjust.

Yeah, I wonder why every other developed country doesn't have that problem. Lmao! Did you bother to read some of the data in that link?

Edit: Also, looking at the data, tort law is very strict in North Carolina. Where it is very difficult to bring a medical malpractice claim. Some more googling indicates that healthcare costs are not significantly different nor are their health outcomes significantly better than other states they're actually terrible.

Moreover, tort reforms from what I'm reading in legislation are just caps on how much someone can sue for and based on data is only 2% overall costs in the healthcare industry. Also, they seem to just shift the costs of caring for injured patients who suffer from malpractice to the patient and the government because the courts order doctors and hospitals to pay a lore more than whatever the cap a politician passes and its victim need the money just to pay the new bills that result from that malpractice.

I don't understand how that was an easy answer when this sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

 

[lacanteen]

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/bloomberg-or-bernie/

 

[watisthis]

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/bloomberg-or-bernie/

Personally, I don't like Bloomberg at all, he'd make a far better Republican and even then I'd still rather have the other 3 we talked about earlier, lol. And if Bernie were to get knocked out I'd reluctantly go with Amy or Pete, not a whole lot of backup candidates I like. Sigh, someone decent on the Republican side should have at least tried to upset.

 

[Docscurlock]

Personally, I don't like Bloomberg at all, he'd make a far better Republican and even then I'd still rather have the other 3 we talked about earlier, lol. And if Bernie were to get knocked out I'd reluctantly go with Amy or Pete, not a whole lot of backup candidates I like. Sigh, someone decent on the Republican side should have at least tried to upset.

You could always vote for Trump, he has a proven track record of success with our economy.

 

[watisthis]

You could always vote for Trump, he has a proven track record of success with our economy.

Everyone has a proven track record of success with our economy. Its a perception, Democrats will say Obama's was good, Republicans will say Trumps is good and that Obama barely kept the economy going.

There are way too many economic influences to determine an economic shift solely. We need to study various key indicators such as balance of trade, retail sales, building permits, consumer and business expectations, inflation, corporate profits, currency strength, GDP, income and wages, interest rates, inventory, credit index, level of new startups, manufacturing activity, stock market, unemployment rate with regards to hours works and labor force participation, value of commodities, and the housing market.

Pretty easy to find talking points to call any president an economic success esp when they are moreso an extension of the previous president as policies take years to determine effects.

Sponsored