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Car and Driver Muscle Car Showdown: 2020 GT500 vs ZL1 1LE vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye

Nomadic

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That was my point though. The ZLE really is a track focused car. It’s a one trick pony. If the only criteria people had when buying a car is “best focused track car” then the ZLE is the best choice. That’s why I mentioned it will limit the buying pool. Most buyers want to buy a car that they can track and drive on the street.

I didn’t have to search far to find a great deal on a ZLE. Koons is offering between $6-10K off MSRP depending on what rebates you qualify for on a 19 or 20 ZLE. Since I have a Mustang I would get close to $9K off their 19 ZLE. With no negotiation. Pretty sure I could get it even lower since it’s been sitting for over a year.
Koons offers massive discounts on Mustangs as well. They're a high volume east coast dealer. Here on the west coast, you rarely ever see deals like that. I agree the ZLE is a one-trick pony. But the same engine is in the regular ZL1 and that's much more liveable and considerably less $ being a brand new ones can be had for low $60s. The GT500 is just too expensive.
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Deviruchi

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The GT500 is just too expensive.
Hate to state the obvious here but that is demonstrably untrue. Supply and demand are immutable laws of the universe just like gravity - your opinion, my opinion, doesn't matter. If anything the 500 is priced too low - hence the ADMs.
 

02gtnh

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Hate to state the obvious here but that is demonstrably untrue. Supply and demand are immutable laws of the universe just like gravity - your opinion, my opinion, doesn't matter. If anything the 500 is priced too low - hence the ADMs.
ADM isn't for low price, its due to very low inventory with high demand.
 

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Hate to state the obvious here but that is demonstrably untrue. Supply and demand are immutable laws of the universe just like gravity - your opinion, my opinion, doesn't matter. If anything the 500 is priced too low - hence the ADMs.
Ehh, cars like these aren't exactly a commodity object, I don't think normal supply and demand really applies. The GT500 has been pretty hyped up(for good reason, it's a sweet car), there's a limited amount to go around, and people with deep pockets don't really care about another 10-15k(or more) on an already 70-90k car.

The real tale will be in 2-4 years when they start showing up more in the used market.
 

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chill66

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Here's the complete stat sheet with test results (w/o road course lap times).
Thanks for sharing the file. Like I stated earlier, the most interesting thing to me is that the Camaro didn’t actually win a single category on the scorecard. It only won the overall because of the points they gave it over the 500 in the “Vehicle” category. More specifically, the 11 point advantage because of price and so-called “features/amenities”.
 

02gtnh

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Thanks for sharing the file. Like I stated earlier, the most interesting thing to me is that the Camaro didn’t actually win a single category on the scorecard. It only won the overall because of the points they gave it over the 500 in the “Vehicle” category. More specifically, the 11 point advantage because of price and so-called “features/amenities”.
It won 5 categories.
 

Checkmate

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Thanks for sharing the file. Like I stated earlier, the most interesting thing to me is that the Camaro didn’t actually win a single category on the scorecard. It only won the overall because of the points they gave it over the 500 in the “Vehicle” category. More specifically, the 11 point advantage because of price and so-called “features/amenities”.
What's telling is - here's a car 3-4 years old that is close to $20k cheaper pushing performance times that beat or match the CFTP GT500.

The ZL1 1LE is short on power by 110hp compared to the GT500.

Regardless of whether you are a fan of GM or Ford, collectively we should tell those corporations to F off.

These cars are a function of the Engineering teams that live within these corporations.

We should commend a brave group of people at GM at one time that decided to blow $2Bn into the Alpha platform and also use it for the Camaro. Chevy's engineers should be applauded for what the did with the ZL1 1LE.
 

chill66

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It won 5 categories.
It did? When I speak of category, I mean the primary score categories they list at the bottom: Vehicle, Powertrain, Chassis, and Experience. There are multiple subcategories within each of those categories. You can see the total score for each of those categories. The number in blue indicates the winning points for that particular category. The winners for each category were as follows:

Vehicle: Challenger
Powertrain: 500
Chassis: Tie (500 & Camaro)
Experience: Tie (500 & Camaro)
 

02gtnh

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It did? When I speak of category, I mean the primary score categories they list at the bottom: Vehicle, Powertrain, Chassis, and Experience. There are multiple subcategories within each of those categories. You can see the total score for each of those categories. The number in blue indicates the winning points for that particular category. The winners for each category were as follows:

Vehicle: Challenger
Powertrain: 500
Chassis: Tie (500 & Camaro)
Experience: Tie (500 & Camaro)
ok, you looked at it different then I did, but a tie for first is still a win.
 

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V00D00

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This is how worthless the scoring is.
please elude to what features and amenities are soo lacking to justify that gap
Exterior styling of a cftp Gt500 is only 8?
How can the slower car get the same rating as the fastest car, ESPECIALLY when you look at trap speed as well
id love to know the NVH on any of these cars, especially in quite mode

So there you have it, somehow the camro eeked out 2 points higher, when none of thier logic is consistant. another failure in journalism

cnd test.JPG
 

chill66

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This is how worthless the scoring is.
please elude to what features and amenities are soo lacking to justify that gap
Exterior styling of a cftp Gt500 is only 8?
How can the slower car get the same rating as the fastest car, ESPECIALLY when you look at trap speed as well
id love to know the NVH on any of these cars, especially in quite mode

So there you have it, somehow the camro eeked out 2 points higher, when none of thier logic is consistant. another failure in journalism

cnd test.JPG
This is exactly what I was pointing to. I actually just noticed the 1/4 mile performance myself. How in the hell is it a tie, when the 500 beat both cars in the 1/4? That makes no sense whatsoever. By their non-logic, it should have been a 3-way tie. :crackup:

A 6 point advantage for features/amenities??? I'm struggling to see the logic in that
 

02gtnh

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This is exactly what I was pointing to. I actually just noticed the 1/4 mile performance myself. How in the hell is it a tie, when the 500 beat both cars in the 1/4? That makes no sense whatsoever. By their non-logic, it should have been a 3-way tie. :crackup:

A 6 point advantage for features/amenities??? I'm struggling to see the logic in that
My guess is the 1le only lost the 1/4 mile by .1 sec, but being down 110hp was impressive to them. The hellcat lost by .2 sec, but had the most hp, thus lower score.
 

02gtnh

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This is how worthless the scoring is.
please elude to what features and amenities are soo lacking to justify that gap
Exterior styling of a cftp Gt500 is only 8?
How can the slower car get the same rating as the fastest car, ESPECIALLY when you look at trap speed as well
id love to know the NVH on any of these cars, especially in quite mode

So there you have it, somehow the camro eeked out 2 points higher, when none of thier logic is consistant. another failure in journalism

cnd test.JPG
The base CFTP doesn't come with a whole lot of features. Both other cars come fully loaded with every option. The GT500 didn't have the entertainment package which would of made the score tighter, but would of effected price.
 

V00D00

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The base CFTP doesn't come with a whole lot of features. Both other cars come fully loaded with every option. The GT500 didn't have the entertainment package which would of made the score tighter, but would of effected price.
the Tech pack doesn really add much, stereo, blis, puddle lamps and nav. Im ok with variances, but there is 0 consistency in the scoring. sure, be lower, but that gap makes no sense

take the 1/4 mile, i see what you wrote, and sure, but then, finish quantifying it, 8mph faster is faster, ET is faster, is faster, it cant be a tie, if other performance areas and "objective" scores are not tied..

and exterior appearance, sure 100% subjective, i get it, but your telling me the dodge, with the autozone fenders and a 60s retro scoop beat the CFTP GT500!? the CF wheels alone should have gotten 8pts.

see what im saying?
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