Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[Minn19]

The weight difference is generally overstated. It's like having a passenger in the car versus not. The weight difference isn't like the weight difference between my Z06 and the ZL1 1LE. Now THAT is a major weight difference that really matters and you can certainly feel the change in performance between a 3100 lb car and a 3800 lb car.



Right it isn't insignificant if you are Randy P. and if everything else is equal. But very few of us will notice or run actual faster lap times due to a couple hundred pounds weight difference.

And power to weight is what you will really notice in a car.

I don't know, I notice my ZLE is a couple of hundred pounds more than my M4 CS was. Obviously not exactly that much, but I can definitely tell it is a bigger heavier car. Just like when I test drove a CTS-V and he said you can't even tell its a big heavy sedan can you? Umm yeah I could........

I agree that for acceleration power to weight is the most important, but not handling. I'm somewhat hypocritical here as I could've got a SS 1LE that handles better in some ways than the ZL1s because of the less weight over the noise, but I also like power as well and the ZLE offered a good balance of both.

Sponsored

 

[JohnnyUtah]

The weight difference is generally overstated. It's like having a passenger in the car versus not. The weight difference isn't like the weight difference between my Z06 and the ZL1 1LE. Now THAT is a major weight difference that really matters and you can certainly feel the change in performance between a 3100 lb car and a 3800 lb car.



Right it isn't insignificant if you are Randy P. and if everything else is equal. But very few of us will notice or run actual faster lap times due to a couple hundred pounds weight difference.

And power to weight is what you will really notice in a car.

I've found that an average passenger... let's call it 180 pounds... would cost me about 1-2 seconds depending on the track.

I do agree that the weight difference was originally overstated. First it was like 42xx pounds, but it sounds like with CFTP it's more like 40xx, which is a lot more reasonable.

I think the power difference is more than enough to make up for it. If it was 42xx, I wouldn't think so. Plus some of the weight was for things like a faster tranny and bigger brakes, which obv help. It's not a hellcat.

 

[Mountain376]

It would be nice to see just how bad the tires were cooked on the GT500. And while a visual is mere cursory at best it sure looks like the 1LE is running a bit more negative camber than the GT500...

The car in the thumbnail is not any of the cars in the video. The ZL1 1LE used in the video is grey and you can plainly see it has very little negative camber. TH used a regular ZL1, a blue car, for the drag race. There was no blue ZL1 1LE used in the video.

Not sure why there is a blue ZL1 1LE in the thumbnail... Maybe it's a photoshop, but the grey car in the video does not look to have any significant camber.

Agreed on the tires. I wish they showed them to at least see how bad they were.

 

[millhouse]

The car in the thumbnail is not any of the cars in the video. The ZL1 1LE used in the video is grey and you can plainly see it has very little negative camber. TH used a regular ZL1, a blue car, for the drag race. There was no blue ZL1 1LE used in the video.

Not sure why there is a blue ZL1 1LE in the thumbnail... Maybe it's a photoshop, but the grey car in the video does not look to have any significant camber.

Agreed on the tires. I wish they showed them to at least see how bad they were.

I see it now. Agreed. The mustang definitely has more...but it strangely appears to have the same as the hellcat.

As for the blue ZLE, another WTF moment.

 

[Mountain376]

Some fun weight comparisons for you guys:

Pure Body in White:
Camaro= 650 lbs
Challenger= 890 lbs
Mustang= 760 lbs

Front Subframe:
Camaro= 24 lbs
Mustang= 60 lbs

Rear IRS+Cradle:
Camaro= slightly heavier than Mustang*
Mustang= slightly lighter than Camaro*

Percent Steel Usage (overall car):
Camaro= under 70% (I think the number was a bit above 65%)
Mustang= over 70% (I think the number was around 75%)

Some notes I wrote down at one point from a year or two ago. Camaro used a lot more aluminum and composites than mustang.

*memory serves around 10lbs difference, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Classic Lover]

Ford could end all of this if they just released some track times for the car. Come on Ford you build a track car and don’t give times? That’s part of what helped the viper go down in the history books because Dodge hyped up what the car could do. If 95% of drivers will never run the fastest time anyway why not set some records if you can?

 

[ZRacerLE]

Ford could end all of this if they just released some track times for the car. Come on Ford you build a track car and don’t give times? That’s part of what helped put the viper go down in the history books because Dodge hyped up what the car could do. If 95% of drivers will never run the fastest time anyway why not set some records if you can?

I'll tell you right now, if Ford would get serious about battling GM on "laptime bragging rights", we'd end up with $30K cars that could lap the nurburgring in less than 7 minutes (exaggerating here, but it's appropriate).

 

[Concrete GT]

Isn't it funny that there is always "one little thing" to keep cars close in these comparison videos???
I mean in the C8 video it was the 3 second track tune the Chevy engineers gave the Vette(not to mention 10X more wheel time in the C8 for the driver)….so we all know the BASE GT500 is realistically 5 seconds faster....math doesn't lie....

Now we get the GT500 being sandbagged with bald tires....Why? Then they bring in a "Blue car"......you can hear a pulley down and intake at minimum if you listen closely.... Well think about it. The GT500 just destroyed these same 2 cars in another video and if you put good rubber on it it walks away from the other 2 cars by bus lengths in the drag race, roll race and by 4 to 5 seconds over the Camaro on the track(worn tires are worth at least 4 or 5 seconds on a heavy car like the GT500....

It's too much winning.... some can't handle all the winning.

 

[ZRacerLE]

Isn't it funny that there is always "one little thing" to keep cars close in these comparison videos???
I mean in the C8 video it was the 3 second track tune the Chevy engineers gave the Vette(not to mention 10X more wheel time in the C8 for the driver)….so we all know the BASE GT500 is realistically 5 seconds faster....math doesn't lie....

Now we get the GT500 being sandbagged with bald tires....Why? Then they bring in a "Blue car"......you can hear a pulley down and intake at minimum if you listen closely.... Well think about it. The GT500 just destroyed these same 2 cars in another video and if you put good rubber on it it walks away from the other 2 cars by bus lengths in the drag race, roll race and by 4 to 5 seconds over the Camaro on the track(worn tires are worth at least 4 or 5 seconds on a heavy car like the GT500....

It's too much winning.... some can't handle all the winning.

Reminds me of Trump

 

[9secondko]

This is why the car community deserves you, prognosticator of fair-balanced car tests, wearer of the IAB badge.

Henceforth, you will be assigned to oversee all performance car tests to ensure that Mustang6g's honor is kept. You'll be like a congressional oversight committee of one... representing all of our best interests, so that we can put faith in all youtube reviews.

I will vote for you because you will clearly put in the time and effort to ensure that no stone is left unturned. No lug is left un-torqued. No tire is touched prior to the driver of your choice getting behind the wheel.

LOL

IF the Camaro were handicapped as severely as the 500 was, you be peeing blood for a week and organizing a march.

 

[BluByeU]

Presenting the IAB (Internet Action Badge) awarded to all those who have never had their car on a track of any kind but are experts on which vehicle is the best for a given venue.

Be a pal and FEDEX not 1, but 2 for me and a friend

 

[9secondko]

What’s the big deal guys? Randy himself said the gt500 would have won on fresh tires. Not one clear thinking car guy thinks the ZL1 1LE is faster on a bigger track than the CFTP. That being said let’s be critical of the gt500 like you are of the 1LE, one word weight, too much weight. All the mass really does wear out tires quickly, and I don’t know how much those cup2s cost but I’m guessing it’s a quite a bit. I think on a really big track like say the Nurburgring the times between these cars will be close, simply because the gt500 will have worn out its tires by the end on that long of a track.

What’s the big deal guys? Randy himself said the gt500 would have won on fresh tires. Not one clear thinking car guy thinks the ZL1 1LE is faster on a bigger track than the CFTP. That being said let’s be critical of the gt500 like you are of the 1LE, one word weight, too much weight. All the mass really does wear out tires quickly, and I don’t know how much those cup2s cost but I’m guessing it’s a quite a bit. I think on a really big track like say the Nurburgring the times between these cars will be close, simply because the gt500 will have worn out its tires by the end on that long of a track.

the big deal is that a video is far more convincing and Jan mere words, in spite of the handicapped state of the 500.

People see it underperform and do t care why.
But that was by design here.

these guys could have easily acquired new tires and put the aero back on.

hecj they were willing to modify the Camaro tires with non stock upgrades in a previous head to head.

But won’t even ensure the Mustang has roadworthy STOCK tires?

fake news.
Throttle house has taken another ding in the credibility dept.

 

[BluByeU]

I'm far from blind to the Mustang's shortcomings (there are many).

For me, this is what makes it such a popular car among car enthusiasts - the mod factor. During the heyday of the Foxbody craze, it was the same thing if not more. They are reasonably priced and you can mod the living hell out of one if you so desire.
One of the coolest feelings is taking down a car with a bigger engine/more power because of the things you did to make your Mustang competitive. To use a boxing metaphor - Mustangs have the ability to punch above their weight.

 

[5.2 liters of democracy]

Presenting the IAB (Internet Action Badge) awarded to all those who have never had their car on a track of any kind but are experts on which vehicle is the best for a given venue.

I need one of those for all the times I've hit 180 mph on a road course but refuse to tell people where it was.

 

[Boss2013]

Ford could end all of this if they just released some track times for the car. Come on Ford you build a track car and don’t give times? That’s part of what helped the viper go down in the history books because Dodge hyped up what the car could do. If 95% of drivers will never run the fastest time anyway why not set some records if you can?

That’s just it. Ford did not build a track car, it built a great, well-rounded grand touring car that offers a package that provides better track performance. People buying vehicles with the intent to track them regularly are a very, very small segment of purchasers and the only ones who actually give a crap about the tenths of a second advantage one has over another.

The number of people who are really cross-shopping a ZL1 and a GT500 is also very small. A vast majority are going to buy the car produced by the company they have a strong preference for, regardless of the performance metrics, especially if the difference in those numbers is negligible. Yes, price also might play into that decision, but again, only a very small percentage of the time.

Sponsored