Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[Hack]

It's becoming clear that you can throw a blanket over the ZL1 (/1LE) and GT500 (/CFTP) in just about any contest other than high speed roll racing or on a prepped dragstrip. It's gonna come down to the driver, or the tires, the alignment, or some other miniscule variable that will put one car or the other ahead by a few tenths, and the forums will argue about the "advantages" 'till hell freezes over.

It's an amazing level of performance for a factory stock Mustang or Camaro. One thing is obvious though... you do get a lot more for your money with the ZL1.

It's always been the case that as performance goes up, price goes up faster. A base Mustang GT could be said to be a better bargain than a ZL1 for that reason. The ZL1 certainly isn't twice as fast as a base Mustang GT. If you want the best performance car, you have to pay the money. And the GT500 is definitely better than the ZL1.

They did it right. The base ZL1 has Mag ride and they wanted to test it against the GT500 which also has Mag ride.

The ZL1 1LE on the other hand is engineered as a track day weapon.....just like the GT500 CFTP.

At some point, let's all agree the Alpha chassis of the Camaro is amazing for what it is. GM has done a terrible job marketing this product.

We all forget the ZL1 1LE (Manual) did 7:16 at the Nurburgring. Think about what a feat that is.

GM is the king of sticky tires and hard suspension. Also, questionable test times. If the suspension doesn't move and your tires are the stickiest, you don't need a great chassis. I've yet to see any hard data proving to me that the Alpha chassis is any better than the current Mustang chassis.

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[SCCA Racer #75]

I just read... excuses excuses excuses.

Now truth be told... I spoke with Randy... and he admitted the tires were shot in his opinion. But wait... guys... don't you always call BS on his opinion? Now, when he says the mustang 'would have won'... it's the truth?

Because the 'Hosts'... all said the tires were fine... and the test was done in the morning before the other tests.

Again... to be honest... it's just fun seeing all you Ford Fanbois jump around hysterically when your $100K+ Mustang get's stomped on by a little ole' $60K Camaro! (real world prices).

It also shows... that you will need every bit of that additional 100HP and NEW tires... to be able to (hopefully) beat a 3 year old Camaro.

Just sayin' ;)

Dave

 

[SCCA Racer #75]

It's becoming clear that you can throw a blanket over the ZL1 (/1LE) and GT500 (/CFTP) in just about any contest other than high speed roll racing or on a prepped dragstrip. It's gonna come down to the driver, or the tires, the alignment, or some other miniscule variable that will put one car or the other ahead by a few tenths, and the forums will argue about the "advantages" 'till hell freezes over.

It's an amazing level of performance for a factory stock Mustang or Camaro. One thing is obvious though... you do get a lot more for your money with the ZL1.

This is #TRUTH

 

[millhouse]

Just so everyone is clear and this is based on new information -

The GT500 was supplied by Ford. It had the 'track' alignment.

The ZLE was supplied by a viewer. It had the 'street' alignment.

Any discussion about the tires should be moot at this point.

The ZLE was short 110hp, No DCT and no CF wheels. The Alpha chassis + ZLE specific kinematics won the game here.

Before anyone starts questioning the Throttle House team, they also had Jason Camissa and Randy Pobst on hand to ensure everything was fair and balanced.

Camissa as we know is a huge GT500 fan and is usually picky as hell about everything being on point.

Curious. Can you source where the Ford had a track alignment and the ZLE had a street alignment? If you can't, you're guessing.

And to the point, Randy said with fresh tires the GT500 would have won....end of story.

They did it right. The base ZL1 has Mag ride and they wanted to test it against the GT500 which also has Mag ride.

The ZL1 1LE on the other hand is engineered as a track day weapon.....just like the GT500 CFTP.

At some point, let's all agree the Alpha chassis of the Camaro is amazing for what it is. GM has done a terrible job marketing this product.

We all forget the ZL1 1LE (Manual) did 7:16 at the Nurburgring. Think about what a feat that is.

I'm sorry, this is bullshit. Ford has said the base GT500 is faster in the 1/4 mile. The ZL1 was used only because they thought it had too much aero and it would have not been fair. At the same time, the GT500 CFTP has just as much aero.

Again, it's complete bullshit. You don't swap out one car in the middle of a test for another....especially when the other car also has a sibling available with less aero.

Notice at the end, they are choosing between the ZLE and the GT500 CFTP? Don't throw a bullshit test in the middle of a head to head comparison.

 

[thill444]

They did it right. The base ZL1 has Mag ride and they wanted to test it against the GT500 which also has Mag ride.

The ZL1 1LE on the other hand is engineered as a track day weapon.....just like the GT500 CFTP.

At some point, let's all agree the Alpha chassis of the Camaro is amazing for what it is. GM has done a terrible job marketing this product.

We all forget the ZL1 1LE (Manual) did 7:16 at the Nurburgring. Think about what a feat that is.

The difference is the GT500 CFTP is not a one trick pony (no pun intended) for the track. It's just a more rounded car for the street and has magride suspension and a much more forgiving ride and much better visibility. That's why the Throttle House guys and Camissa picked it as the winner, they all agreed it was the better all around car.

The ZLE is awesome on the track and there is no denying it for the money. GM nailed the handling and suspension on the car (for the track). For the street. Not so much. I have test driven them several times and its brutal on bad roads and the ZL1 or either of the GT500's would be the better car for the street.

The 6th Gen Camaro just has a very polarizing design. This has been covered from here and back so many times but many people just don't like the bunker like feel and visibility. Just about every review always mentions this and as good as the chasis and engine are, you can't just say it's bad marketing. The Mustang has little to no marketing either from what I can see (I have never seen a GT350/GT500 advertisement on TV).

People obsess about tenths of a second around a track by a professional driver but the reality is that most people don't buy cars because of track times and magazine racing.

 

[shogun32]

The Camaro is obviously not a good deal for your money because they’re awkward looking and exterior/interior design fails. They can’t give them away

which makes them a FABULOUS deal for the money. Yes the 'bunker' of the Camaro can be a a bit disconcerting (long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs) and particularly so when stepping straight from the Mustang into it. But you quickly adjust to it.

 

[gmd2003]

I just read... excuses excuses excuses.

Now truth be told... I spoke with Randy... and he admitted the tires were shot in his opinion. But wait... guys... don't you always call BS on his opinion? Now, when he says the mustang 'would have won'... it's the truth?

Because the 'Hosts'... all said the tires were fine... and the test was done in the morning before the other tests.

Again... to be honest... it's just fun seeing all you Ford Fanbois jump around hysterically when your $100K+ Mustang get's stomped on by a little ole' $60K Camaro! (real world prices).

It also shows... that you will need every bit of that additional 100HP and NEW tires... to be able to (hopefully) beat a 3 year old Camaro.

Just sayin' ;)

Dave

From watching the video 500 did not have its wing in the track position and did not have its CFTP front aero on either .... poor job by Ford all the way around .

 

[762Cat]

People obsess about tenths of a second around a track by a professional driver but the reality is that most people don't buy cars because of track times and magazine racing.

This is a good point but I'd take a step further. Modern cars are so good that very few people posses the means, the funding or the skill to drive them around a road course anywhere near the limit. Any of the three at the limit on the street is suicidal for you and definitely irresponsible for those around you. I'm not poo pooing spirited driving, I do it to but I'm talking about at the limit of the cars performance. That can only really be reached on track where you know the surfaces, the braking zones, the apex of each corner, where to look, when to brake and be on throttle etc... As you get to know a track and the car you can push further into the performance and begin to approach the limits if you know what you are doing.

My point is all three are great cars and very few will ever reach the limits of any of them. Caveat I'm not talking about straight line performance. Many many more people will drag race, roll race and just romp on some good ol' horsepower for fun. It cost 20 dollars to go to a test n' tune. A good track day and you're out a grand.

 

[thasuperdude]

Let me ask you this: offered a CFTP or ZLE for free, no strings attached, factory new, any options you want, no tax, insurance, any other cost considerations ... what do you choose?

Camaro, I already have a Mustang

 

[ALUSA]

Apparently the ZLE in the comparison was on street alignment while the GT500 was on track alignment straight from Ford.

 

[thill444]

This is a good point but I'd take a step further. Modern cars are so good that very few people posses the means, the funding or the skill to drive them around a road course anywhere near the limit. Any of the three at the limit on the street is suicidal for you and definitely irresponsible for those around you. I'm not poo pooing spirited driving, I do it to but I'm talking about at the limit of the cars performance. That can only really be reached on track where you know the surfaces, the braking zones, the apex of each corner, where to look, when to brake and be on throttle etc... As you get to know a track and the car you can push further into the performance and begin to approach the limits if you know what you are doing.

My point is all three are great cars and very few will ever reach the limits of any of them. Caveat I'm not talking about straight line performance. Many many more people will drag race, roll race and just romp on some good ol' horsepower for fun. It cost 20 dollars to go to a test n' tune. A good track day and you're out a grand.

100% agree. There is a channel on Youtube I follow and the guy is a good driver, and does a lot of time attack events. He had a 19 ZL1 1LE and ended up getting into an SS 1LE. He realized it was a better daily driver and that his laptimes were very close because the limits of the ZL1 1LE were much higher than his abilities. The cost he saved allowed him to do more track times to improve his skills which, in the end, will allow him to match or exceed his ZLE times.

 

[762Cat]

Sure seem to be a lot of Gt500 giveaways. This one, Stangmode, Shelby American. Anybody wonder if that colors the choice at the end? Don't get me wrong. If they were giving me one of the three I'd choose the Shelby as well but not for reasons having anything to do with tenths of seconds.

https://www.omaze.com/products/ford...=PitchSelf-Film&oa_h=2ujk1f&ref=throttlehouse

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Very surprised how well the Red Eye did on the track.

Right? I mean, we knew it would be slower, but it's a magazine race for most of us, it's still pretty capable, a ton of fun on the street, plus has some perks the other two don't have (mostly in terms of room, comfort, visibility, etc.)

 

[762Cat]

Right? I mean, we knew it would be slower, but it's a magazine race for most of us, it's still pretty capable, a ton of fun on the street, plus has some perks the other two don't have (mostly in terms of room, comfort, visibility, etc.)

Not surprised at all but then I've regularly road coursed Hellcats. Every time I've been the most common thing I hear from other car owners is....." I didn't think a Hellcat could do that". I always say "don't believe everything you see on the internet the big girl can turn....tell all your friends"

 

[BmacIL]

hard data proving to me that the Alpha chassis is any better than the current Mustang chassis.

It is, stock. It has far less subframe bushing and suspension member bushing deflection, and is a better multi-link design for optimal handling and geometric control. The Ford integral link is very compact and efficient, and isn't a bad suspension, from a control points perspective. Ford handicaps it HARD with their NVH-isolation measures, and could improve it significantly without adding much, if any cost, and with minimal to no NVH changes. There are a few other things like the rear shock mounting design. Also, having a pretty poor rear motion ratio (worse than the Alpha) means that you need to run larger and heavier springs. The S550 is a good platform, and can be made much better still.

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