30,000 Mile, No Catch Can Report

[Deleted member]

@turbotigger604
The technicalities of it are in theory but not entirely scientific theory of what the can claims to achieve, remember the burden of proof lies on the one making the claim not the other way around therefore nothing is required on the ones that don't add a catch can. It's simply your opinion that the can will help, maybe, possibly, that's not a convincing argument for a must have as you claim. If there was proof after all these years these debates would not exist.

Again you answered none of my questions against your argument above, how is the oil that the can catches not a measurement of the product doing its job?

We go back to the question of how you plan to explain that a 4 stroke ICE burning oil onto it's intake valves without fuel being able to clean them is a good thing.

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[kent0464]

Wow.
The reasons to run a catch can have been valid, since before there was any DI engine in a ford, hell even before the current vendors where in business.
Carbon build up isn’t the real concern with a catch can, there are other ways to combat that, the real concern is oil vapor and/or actual oil getting into the combustion chamber. The pvc system can not and will not stop all of the oil vapor. This is especially true with a turbo motor as crank case pressures are higher than N/A motors, and gets worse as the motor ages and the pvc system ages.
Go to any track of any type and find a competitive car running without a catch can....you won’t, these guys know that a catch can may save their motor. Hell any street guy with a performance car that drives it hard knows the benefits of a catch can.
Granted there are things offered by vendors, etc that offer no real performance benefit, but a catch can is not one of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow.
The reasons to run a catch can have been valid, since before there was any DI engine in a ford, hell even before the current vendors where in business.
Carbon build up isn’t the real concern with a catch can, there are other ways to combat that, the real concern is oil vapor and/or actual oil getting into the combustion chamber. The pvc system can not and will not stop all of the oil vapor. This is especially true with a turbo motor as crank case pressures are higher than N/A motors, and gets worse as the motor ages and the pvc system ages.
Go to any track of any type and find a competitive car running without a catch can....you won’t, these guys know that a catch can may save their motor. Hell any street guy with a performance car that drives it hard knows the benefits of a catch can.
Granted there are things offered by vendors, etc that offer no real performance benefit, but a catch can is not one of them.

Thank you FFS I don't understand why there is a snake oil theory with catch cans.

 

[Turbong]

Wow.
The reasons to run a catch can have been valid, since before there was any DI engine in a ford, hell even before the current vendors where in business.
Carbon build up isn’t the real concern with a catch can, there are other ways to combat that, the real concern is oil vapor and/or actual oil getting into the combustion chamber. The pvc system can not and will not stop all of the oil vapor. This is especially true with a turbo motor as crank case pressures are higher than N/A motors, and gets worse as the motor ages and the pvc system ages.
Go to any track of any type and find a competitive car running without a catch can....you won’t, these guys know that a catch can may save their motor. Hell any street guy with a performance car that drives it hard knows the benefits of a catch can.
Granted there are things offered by vendors, etc that offer no real performance benefit, but a catch can is not one of them.

Thanks, that's what I've been saying, I don't see any evidence for it doing anything for carbon build up that what he has been debating all about, I understand catch cans for racing/high performance use I've stated that in other threads where it makes sense to have one but 99% people are not taking their EB'S to the track, he believes everyone should have one for the wrong reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks, that's what I've been saying, I don't see any evidence for it doing anything for carbon build up that what he has been debating all about, I understand catch cans for racing/high performance use I've stated that in other threads where it makes sense to have one but 99% people are not taking their EB'S to the track, he believes everyone should have one for the wrong reasons.

They aren't just for track cars nor did he say that....

But I'm done with this discussion, if you don't want to run a catch can then go ahead man.

Also you still never answered any of my arguments

 

[RubyRed15]

You've yet to explain to me how you think all the oil, that is being caught by a catch can is beneficial to direct injected motor? How is oil coating something that is not supposed to, where it will not have the benefit of being cleaned by gasoline better for your engine?

What if the catch can is the reason there's oil in the catch can? No one has even answered that question yet.

 

[Burgo]

The whole aftermarket car accessory companies go to great lengths to try and convince you that all the parts on your car are weak, inferior, not fit for purpose, going to fail at any moment and leave you stranded therefore you must upgrade immediately to their "better" parts.

Just because there is a market for these products that doesn't mean that they are essential or necessary!

 

[ihasnostang]

pull a plug and stick a borescope to look at the piston. my former daily/ winter beater's piston faces are caked in carbon. they don't come factory because that's another maintenance item that requires service interval and probably a sensor in case it gets too full ( i mean we need a sensor to tell when washer fluid is low)

 

[Dave TBG]

I read on an internet forum that catching oil was one thing, but reducing the oily vapor was also a reason to get a CC - prevents some form of pre-ignition that kills engines, or something like that. I'm not sure how to tell if a CC is improving anything from that perspective, either.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The idea of a catch can is to capture oil that is in the form of vapor. A well designed system would route this back to the crank case, a cheap one just condenses it and stores it.
The questions to ask are; how much oil vapor is there, what percentage does a catch can remove, what percentage of that vapor is left behind as a deposit with a catch can vs without.
It's not lost on me that the majority of EB owners are not the enthusiast type and may never join a mustang forum. As a result, they are blissfully unaware that their motors are doomed if they don't add a part that Ford forgot to put in. These must be the people who's vehicles litter the sides of the highways. Someone should have warned them.

 

[Deleted member 35644]

Not only is it a question of additional maintenance that most owners don't want to deal with, but it's also a tricky subject to attack from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Ford is the first manufacturer to step up and install a factory catch can on the 2021 Mustang 2.3. It's added to the service manuals, and to the service department software. The folks that subscribe to dealership oil changes would be covered, after everyone gets trained up on the additional step. In some cases, the catch can would need to be quite large to go 10,000 miles without overflowing, because lets face it, some folks do minimal maintenance. And a launch of this nature doesn't even cover the folks that have their oil changed at Jiffy Lube, because God forbid they read their owner's manual, where they would discover "Empty Catch Can" in their maintenance schedule. The oil change chains would have to catch up, as well. What happens in the meantime? Overflowing catch cans. Warranty claims ensue, and lawsuits follow when warranty claims are denied due to "lack of proper maintenance".

After a while, word gets out to consumers that Ford has installed a catch can on this engine. Their first thought will be "what's wrong with that engine that it needs a contraption to keep oil from flowing into the intake"? Which leads to: "Oh, hell no...that car burns oil from the factory. I'm going to go shop Chevrolet."

Nobody is going to step up and install these things at the factory, because it equates to an admission of a problem. We on this forum know what the deal is, and those of us who are concerned about it install the can, and maintain it, knowing it's a natural function of a turbocharged, direct injected engine. But the general public won't see it that way, and depending on the breadth of the launch, it could be a marketing disaster for Ford.

Just don't misunderstand the lack of a catch can from the factory to mean that the engine wouldn't benefit from one. There are so many reasons they haven't done it, and none of them are 'lack of need'. Ford knows this is an issue. They've been looking at it for years on the 3.5, but they aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot by installing a catch can. The oil I've dumped out of mine is proof that there is a need, but there are a lot of things these cars need from the factory that they don't get.

Has Ford addressed the PCV in the 2.3? Who's to say? The oil in my catch can says no. Would my car have died a horrible death had I not installed it? Perhaps not. But you'd be surprised at the things I'm willing to do to avoid having to visit a dealership, and crusty valves wouldn't be covered by the warranty.

I found it worth it to add an ounce of prevention. I'm not clear why anyone would come on this forum and try to tell people that they've made a huge mistake by installing one. If you don't want one, don't get one.

 

[Deleted member]

Nobody is going to step up and install these things at the factory, because it equates to an admission of a problem. We on this forum know what the deal is, and those of us who are concerned about it install the can, and maintain it, knowing it's a natural function of a turbocharged, direct injected engine. But the general public won't see it that way, and depending on the breadth of the launch, it could be a marketing disaster for Ford.

Just don't misunderstand the lack of a catch can from the factory to mean that the engine wouldn't benefit from one. There are so many reasons they haven't done it, and none of them are 'lack of need'. Ford knows this is an issue. They've been looking at it for years on the 3.5, but they aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot by installing a catch can. The oil I've dumped out of mine is proof that there is a need, but there are a lot of things these cars need from the factory that they don't get.

Has Ford addressed the PCV in the 2.3? Who's to say? The oil in my catch can says no. Would my car have died a horrible death had I not installed it? Perhaps not. But you'd be surprised at the things I'm willing to do to avoid having to visit a dealership, and crusty valves wouldn't be covered by the warranty.

I found it worth it to add an ounce of prevention. I'm not clear why anyone would come on this forum and try to tell people that they've made a huge mistake by installing one. If you don't want one, don't get one.

 

[Deleted member]

What if the catch can is the reason there's oil in the catch can? No one has even answered that question yet.

The stock PCV valve can already be overcome by the crankcase pressures made on a fully stock eco, let alone a modified one. Crankcase pressure forces oil vapors past the PCV check valve which in theory is what is supposed to stop any oil from getting to the intake manifold.

BUTTTTT the little flimsy plastic check valve can't handle a boosted motors crankcase pressure, that's how you get oil in your intake.

 

[Turbong]

@turbotigger604
Since you are not an engineer in this field and neither am I there is no point in exchange technical arguments that no one can prove and does not answer questions with any validity to the carbon issue but you keep preaching. I will end it with this post since this man is an engineer who worked with Ford and opinion has more merit than vendors and youtubers telling us we must all have catch cans or the engine will rot away, here you go everyone judge for yourself. Peace,

 

[Deleted member]

@turbotigger604
Since you are not an engineer in this field and neither am I there is no point in exchange technical arguments that no one can prove and does not answer questions with any validity to the carbon issue but you keep preaching. I will end it with this post since this man is an engineer who worked with Ford and opinion has more merit than vendors and youtubers telling us we must all have catch cans or the engine will rot away, here you go everyone judge for yourself. Peace,

One engineers posted opinions not changing my mind that oil doesn't belong in the combustion chamber nor on the intake valves. Nor does posting one random engineers post from another forum end a discussion, but like I said before you do you man.

 

[RubyRed15]

He doesn't end the debate or answer any questions, but at least he posed the right questions.

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