VMP vs Roush vs Whipple vs Edelbrock ??

[Burkey]

I've never had a problem shipping a kit to friends in Australia. No one else I know has either. The only rules are there are no rules: go around any hurdles in your way instead of thru them if possible.

Shipping kits isn’t the issue. It’s warranty. If the blower itself (for example) was found faulty, you’d have to send it back to the US. Yella Terra have zero interest in it if they didn’t sell it.
Now ship a blower from Oz to the US, TWICE and pay taxes on it both ways...
The only option outside of that is to pay Yella Terra to fix it.
It’s not a good situation to be in.

Sponsored

 

[sigintel]

Shipping kits isn’t the issue. It’s warranty. If the blower itself (for example) was found faulty, you’d have to send it back to the US. Yella Terra have zero interest in it if they didn’t sell it.
Now ship a blower from Oz to the US, TWICE and pay taxes on it both ways...
The only option outside of that is to pay Yella Terra to fix it.
It’s not a good situation to be in.

No, my friend ships it back APO/FPO and it gets shipped to Whipple.
Shipping costs exist no matter what.
If your freight forwarder knows wtf you should not be paying taxes on it both ways.
So close to China... disposable turbos?
If you need stuff in Australia, check facebook and some of the Aussies M6G.
God Bless those fighting the fires...

 

[Burkey]

No, my friend ships it back APO/FPO and it gets shipped to Whipple.
Shipping costs exist no matter what.
If your freight forwarder knows wtf you should not be paying taxes on it both ways.
So close to China... disposable turbos?
If you need stuff in Australia, check facebook and some of the Aussies M6G.
God Bless those fighting the fires...

My bad, you’re right re taxes. Shipping costs are huge once it leaves Oz though...
Lol at disposable turbos!
And yeah, the fires are CRAZY.
I drove 400 miles from Melbourne to Canberra a few weeks back. Visibility was limited to about 400 yards for all but tiny portions of the trip. Should give you a good idea of the scale.
Canberra suffered the worst air quality ever recorded in the world (to my knowledge). My eyes were stinging from it, nearest fire was nowhere nearby. So much loss happening.

 

[Sighlense]

But still, I'm not as bitter as Hillary.

 

[engineermike]

As to boost pressure, ok, fine. Why not ask the reverse question?
Why don’t Whipple use the same boost pressure?

Are you serious? So if Edelbrock came with a 20# pulley and put 800 ftlb to the wheels on 91 you would call that a win for Edelbrock? I think we need to have a talk about compression ratio, bmep, and reliability...

... twin screw produces more heat than a TVS when out of boost (street driving) on a like-for-like boost level. Ergo, is it possible that if Whipple ran the same boost pressure, the IATs would be worse than they are currently for a Street driven vehicle...and the thing would fall over completely on the third hit..if Whipple thought it could be done, it would be done...If you can’t run the same boost on your Whipple whilst on 91/93 why is that Edelbrocks fault?

Yea, this is pure conjecture and false.

Btw, Whipple does supply a pulley/octane/boost chart and you can, in fact, pulley down with their endorsement when you have even 93 available. I’ve even dropped 2 pulley sizes from supplied (up to Edelbrock Stage 2 boost levels) and found that timing and fuel supply were still well within bounds. Whipple doesn’t recommend it because you don’t have as much safety margin, which brings up the whole bmep and CR discussion again.

Go ahead and find more Whipple cars making the numbers Whipple are claiming, I sure as hell haven’t been able to which is PRECISELY why I didn’t upgrade to a Gen 5 from my Gen 2.
Needs to be Dynojet though, I’ll wait.

This one is from a buddy. 2019 a10, Whipple stage 2 and Whipple tune on the supplied 3.875 pulley. Note the initial 550 ftlb hit is at 3100 rpm. I wonder what that would look like if the boost were raised to Edelbrock Stage 2 levels?

What are Edelbrock stage 2 cars trapping on 93 btw?

 

[Stymee]

Dynojet 248h.



Are you serious? So if Edelbrock came with a 20# pulley and put 800 ftlb to the wheels on 91 you would call that a win for Edelbrock? I think we need to have a talk about compression ratio, bmep, and reliability...



Yea, this is pure conjecture and false.

Btw, Whipple does supply a pulley/octane/boost chart and you can, in fact, pulley down with their endorsement when you have even 93 available. I’ve even dropped 2 pulley sizes from supplied (up to Edelbrock Stage 2 boost levels) and found that timing and fuel supply were still well within bounds. Whipple doesn’t recommend it because you don’t have as much safety margin, which brings up the whole bmep and CR discussion again.



This one is from a buddy. 2019 a10, Whipple stage 2 and Whipple tune on the supplied 3.875 pulley. Note the initial 550 ftlb hit is at 3100 rpm. I wonder what that would look like if the boost were raised to Edelbrock Stage 2 levels?

What are Edelbrock stage 2 cars trapping on 93 btw?

Standard correction is nonsense, regardless of whip or eb, Corrected is the only way to go

 

[Burkey]

Standard correction is nonsense, regardless of whip or eb, Corrected is the only way to go

What? You mean Whipple themselves used STD correction to make the figures look better that they otherwise might be?
How is that possible?

 

[Torinate]

Pretty sure both will completely get the job done!

But yea, companies will always try to show their product in the best way possible. Good business sense. Remember when Whipple “cut up” the Edelbrock because of the inverted intercooler on the intake saying it was a poor design? “Identical size to our LTR but less heat soak, if you know what your doing when you build a system you don't sacrifice in this area which some do or have, us, Edelbrock and VMP sized correctly in this app. An upside down SC is our least favorite because they typically deal with heat soak the worse of all the designs available. Also long runners typically help low end torque but really hurt HP as you slow air speed down, increase pressure drop and increase IAT2's, with the Coyote being a high RPM engine, in some cases this could be a problem.” Then they find out it actually works and fits better and they make their Gen 5 that way? Good times...

 

[Burkey]

I’ll have to address each issue separately.

Are you serious? So if Edelbrock came with a 20# pulley and put 800 ftlb to the wheels on 91 you would call that a win for Edelbrock? I think we need to have a talk about compression ratio, bmep, and reliability...

That’s not the claim I’m making...not even close.
We both know that you can change boost pressure by changing cam timing. Personally, I think it’s a terrible way to try and draw a comparison. If cam timing was identical, I’d agree that you could at least make a case for it, but I’d need more data to be able to draw decent conclusions.

Yea, this is pure conjecture and false.

I agree that it’s speculative. All I know for sure is what I see on my dash when comparing the two.
False? Prove me wrong....
I agreed that it was speculation. You’re the one now making a positive claim. You seem keen for evidence to support assertions but not so keen when they’re YOUR assertions. But please, keep your critical thinking hat on.

Btw, Whipple does supply a pulley/octane/boost chart and you can, in fact, pulley down with their endorsement when you have even 93 available. I’ve even dropped 2 pulley sizes from supplied (up to Edelbrock Stage 2 boost levels) and found that timing and fuel supply were still well within bounds. Whipple doesn’t recommend it because you don’t have as much safety margin, which brings up the whole bmep and CR discussion again.

Ok, let’s try this differently then. I’ll repost the stage one kit, with STOCK TB and 11-12 psi boost* Let’s call that the same as the Stage 2 Whipple in terms of boost pressure. SAE numbers please, not Disneyland figures.
Will that make you happy to compare blowers?
I’m even giving you a breathing advantage here (stock TB vs 132). Now please, go and find a chart, SAE, NOT PRODUCED BY WHIPPLE, and let me know how you go.
*11-12psi boost is the published figure from Edelbrock, assuming you have the 102mm TB, it’s entirely possible/likely that the stage one kit on stock TB makes less than the advertised figure. Either way, I’m giving you at least one advantage, possibly two.


This one is from a buddy. 2019 a10, Whipple stage 2 and Whipple tune on the supplied 3.875 pulley. Note the initial 550 ftlb hit is at 3100 rpm. I wonder what that would look like if the boost were raised to Edelbrock Stage 2 levels?

Your math is wrong, unless the pull stopped before 7200rpm.

7200/148=48.65 multiply by 68 and you get 3300rpm.
Let’s do 7800rpm
7800/148=52.7 multiply by 68 and you get 3580rpm.

Now compare that to a stage ONE Eddy, STOCK TB, SAE numbers, at the same boost level.

Eddy Stage ONE makes 550tq, SAE corrected, by 3750
Your mates Stage TWO Whipple, STD corrected, makes 550tq at 80mph which could be either 3900rpm or 4200rpm, depending on where the pull was stopped. Wheel speed is a terrible method for comparing data sets between cars BTW.
Regardless, it’s all BS because attempting to compare SAE to STD.
Again, please find a stage 2, SAE CORRECTED Dynojet sheet to submit as evidence.

I’m happy to be proven wrong. I just want you to show me that I am because I already did all this research and damned if I could find anything to make me want to buy another Whipple. Literally every single SAE corrected sheet I could find showed ~530 peak torque, typically occurring at 5k-5500rpm.

 

[anyjuan]

Which one has the loudest whine?

 

[Braski]

Which one has the loudest whine?

Definitely not the edlebrock!

 

[Cory S]

3 year old Plain Jane Roush 2300. 12.3-12.5psi on 93 with 16-17.5* of timing above 5500rpm. Through the 6R80 auto, twin 60mm T/B, suitcase resonator, and stock mufflers. It's just as a performer as the rest of them.

 

[Stage_3]

3 year old Plain Jane Roush 2300. 12.3-12.5psi on 93 with 16-17.5* of timing above 5500rpm. Through the 6R80 auto, twin 60mm T/B, suitcase resonator, and stock mufflers. It's just as a performer as the rest of them.

Man, that's a killer set up Cory! All on PUMP GAS!!!
Who tuned the car? (I think I may have asked already? lol)

 

[Cory S]

Man, that's a killer set up Cory! All on PUMP GAS!!!
Who tuned the car? (I think I may have asked already? lol)

No idea! I was in the market for my 10th Mustang. Car was for sale at a dealer, no handheld tuner. Drove 1.5 hours and bought it that day. Picked up a tuner to datalog, and everything looks perfect.

 

[Stage_3]

No idea! I was in the market for my 10th Mustang. Car was for sale at a dealer, no handheld tuner. Drove 1.5 hours and bought it that day. Picked up a tuner to datalog, and everything looks perfect.

Had to be from a very good/reputable tuner. I'm wondering if PBD or VMP?
That's awesome man. Enjoy it.

Sponsored