Locking lug nuts at HPDE track days advice

[rick shea]

First question: I have a 2019 GT350R and just replaced my factory lug nuts with Gorilla 96643BDX black locking lug nuts on my carbon fiber wheels. I read somewhere on the site that people will change out the locking lug nuts at HPDE track days for either Ford Performance open ended lug nuts or the original factory lug nuts. Is there a good reason to do that? The Gorilla locking nuts are the same dimension as the factory non locking chrome lug nuts.

Second question : As the OEM carbon wheels for the R can only be bought from Ford. The fronts run $6,337 and rears $5,372. I have thought about making it as tough as possible for someone to steel them and thought about replacing 1 of the 5 current locking Gorilla lug nuts with a different Gorilla locking lug so that each wheel would have 4 lugs using one Gorilla key and 1 lug using an different Gorilla key. I can mark the single lug with a red dot on each wheel to readily know which key to use. May seem like over-kill? But given the price of the wheels much less the tires on them seems like something to consider? Is this silly or an added security policy?

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[shogun32]

if you're parking your R on the street you have a screw loose.
Why not just keep the carbon wheels for track outings and run cheap-as-chips AL wheels the rest of the time?

Open lug nuts are used at track events so that Tech Inspection can verify they are tights and you too can visually confirm they are not backing out. Some people put a dot of paint on after tigtened and if the dot breaks you know something is amiss.

Huh, I wouldn't have thought 96643BDX were long enough.

 

[JAJ]

First question: I have a 2019 GT350R and just replaced my factory lug nuts with Gorilla 96643BDX black locking lug nuts on my carbon fiber wheels. I read somewhere on the site that people will change out the locking lug nuts at HPDE track days for either Ford Performance open ended lug nuts or the original factory lug nuts. Is there a good reason to do that? The Gorilla locking nuts are the same dimension as the factory non locking chrome lug nuts.

Second question : As the OEM carbon wheels for the R can only be bought from Ford. The fronts run $6,337 and rears $5,372. I have thought about making it as tough as possible for someone to steel them and thought about replacing 1 of the 5 current locking Gorilla lug nuts with a different Gorilla locking lug so that each wheel would have 4 lugs using one Gorilla key and 1 lug using an different Gorilla key. I can mark the single lug with a red dot on each wheel to readily know which key to use. May seem like over-kill? But given the price of the wheels much less the tires on them seems like something to consider? Is this silly or an added security policy?

Two answers. First question - there's nothing wrong with using locking nuts, but I wouldn't, just in case I needed to get a wheel off and somehow my key is sitting on my bench at home. It happens. Second, getting those locking nuts off is remarkably easy if you know how. Basically, they keep honest people honest and not much more. All you have to do is find a socket that's a bit too small to fit over and drive it onto the lug nut with a BFH. Nut'll come right off. My point is, having two keyed lugs isn't much safer than one, and one isn't as safe as the manufacturer wants you to believe.

Last track day I was at, one of the guys had a locking lug and the key broke when he was trying to swap to track tires. Down to the local car parts store, buy a socket, off it came. Dead easy.

 

[RJay]

Some guy on another site was running these.

I thought they looked pretty cool/functional:

https://dsxtuning.com/products/titanium-lug-nuts?variant=28758490447952

 

[Shift]

Some guy on another site was running these.

I thought they looked pretty cool/functional:

https://dsxtuning.com/products/titanium-lug-nuts?variant=28758490447952

$140 for the set. I remember seeing these a couple years back for like $500 or something ridiculous like that.

 

[jvandy50]

$140 for the set. I remember seeing these a couple years back for like $500 or something ridiculous like that.

Yeah, the zl1-addons set is still $390, and 6 point

 

[rick shea]

Yeah, the zl1-addons set is still $390, and 6 point

Thanks for everyones thoughts.I drive my Gt350R and it is not just a track day car or garage queen. I did the wheel swap out routine on my last track car...Porsche Cayman R and am not doing that again. I am not trying to spare my carbon wheels from track time instead use them for the weigh and structural advantages they bring. I do travel to track events and stay at hotels and that is where I am most concerned about wheel left.
I understand that the wheel locks can for taken off without the key by using an undersized socket. But if they have to doe that 20 times and given the fact that that is a noisy process due to the fact that you have to force fit the socket with a hammer ....how many of the oversized sockets would you need and how long would it take. You would have to want those wheels pretty bad over something else on the lot? I know this is all about deterrent . Just try to figure the best way to deter?
I also like the Gorillia lugs I have as they look exactly like the stock chrome ones but in. black and each are locking. I also have a set of the Ford Performance open ended lug nuts for the car and contemplated using those only on track day which means changing them out the morning before the inspection line? Seems like a pain. I guess for track day torque checks I will just give them my lug wrench and key. I belong to the Porsche club and go to their events and they are not used to torquing lug nuts at 150 Lbs.

 

[Tomster]

If you want racecar quality lugs, check out MSI racing lugs and studs. They are not cheap but they are the best.

This was brought up recently in a similar thread. The OP elected to use MSI (a wise choice). I use them when my car goes to the track.

 

[rick shea]

If you want racecar quality lugs, check out MSI racing lugs and studs. They are not cheap but they are the best.

This was brought up recently in a similar thread. The OP elected to use MSI (a wise choice). I use them when my car goes to the track.

Toaster, are you enjoying the Cup 2 tires you bought from me....? Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have a call into OP as I notice the 60 degree seat is smaller than the Gorilla and the stock chrome nuts. They look similar to the Ford performance open ended nuts that have a smaller conical base. Not sure which base is actually better? I have the Ford Performance open ended lug nuts also but given that many of of track days here in Seattle are in the rain and you drive to and from is in the rain,I was afraid that the stud might start to rust. may not be a legitimate concern? I am more concerned on track days about safety, and the nut compatibility with the carbon wheels?

 

[rick shea]

Toaster, are you enjoying the Cup 2 tires you bought from me....? Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have a call into OP as I notice the 60 degree seat is smaller than the Gorilla and the stock chrome nuts. They look similar to the Ford performance open ended nuts that have a smaller conical base. Not sure which base is actually better? I have the Ford Performance open ended lug nuts also but given that many of of track days here in Seattle are in the rain and you drive to and from is in the rain,I was afraid that the stud might start to rust. may not be a legitimate concern? I am more concerned on track days about safety, and the nut compatibility with the carbon wheels?

I hate spell correct....I meant Tomster not Toaster.......

 

[Tomster]

I still don't have the tires. I haven't been to Seattle since.

If you want the best lugs available for the track, call MSI. www.msirp.com

 

[rick shea]

If you want racecar quality lugs, check out MSI racing lugs and studs. They are not cheap but they are the best.

This was brought up recently in a similar thread. The OP elected to use MSI (a wise choice). I use them when my car goes to the track.

I bought the MSI open black lug nuts and they arrived today. I was surprised to see how small they are compared to either the stock chrome , Gorilla locking, or the Ford Performance open ended. The conical base is much smaller. When I ordered them I spoke to someone at MSI about the size and didn't get much of an explanation for the reduced size other they are precision made, very strong and they tried to reduce the size (uses a 19mm socket) to fit deep pocket wheels for racing. Any insight from your prospective on the size issue. They are also very light weight compared to the other? I plan to put them on this afternoon. Do you run them all the time or just when you are on the track? do you use 120# of 15# of torque > Any issues based open you current experience with them?

 

[Tomster]

I bought the MSI open black lug nuts and they arrived today. I was surprised to see how small they are compared to either the stock chrome , Gorilla locking, or the Ford Performance open ended. The conical base is much smaller. When I ordered them I spoke to someone at MSI about the size and didn't get much of an explanation for the reduced size other they are precision made, very strong and they tried to reduce the size (uses a 19mm socket) to fit deep pocket wheels for racing. Any insight from your prospective on the size issue. They are also very light weight compared to the other? I plan to put them on this afternoon. Do you run them all the time or just when you are on the track? do you use 120# of 15# of torque > Any issues based open you current experience with them?

I forget the OEM offset (cone size) but for some reason I think it's 60 degrees. Whatever OEM is, that is what you should have bought. The only other issue is pitch thread, I can't remember..... It should be obvious if you bought the wrong ones.

I would take a picture of mine, but I'm in New Zealand.

They aren't pretty. They are exceptional for strength and reliability.

Use the full recommended torque value 150 +/- 15.

I use them for track only. Like I said, they ain't pretty, but are Superior to OEM (or anything else for that matter) for track use.

 

[rick shea]

I forget the OEM offset (cone size) but for some reason I think it's 60 degrees. Whatever OEM is, that is what you should have bought. The only other issue is pitch thread, I can't remember..... It should be obvious if you bought the wrong ones.

I would take a picture of mine, but I'm in New Zealand.

They aren't pretty. They are exceptional for strength and reliability.

Use the full recommended torque value 150 +/- 15.

I use them for track only. Like I said, they ain't pretty, but are Superior to OEM (or anything else for that matter) for track use.

they fit fine. The cone base seems smaller but threads are perfect and have about 3-4 turns left outbound on the open end. There is only one size available from them do I am sure I bought the right one. They recommend 120 # can crank it up if you think that is practically better. I will leave them on with one gorilla locker for day drives off the track. Mine are black and actually don’t look bad. Much better than the raw Ford Performance open lugs.
Thanks for your help .

 

[Epiphany]

MSI has been supplying racers for quite some time now with proven hardware. Their lugs take quite a beating, something you are never likely to impart on them unless you are in a professional race series with a pit crew that uses air tools on a constant basis.

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