track rotor and pads

[BmacIL]

Sorry to bring this up from the dead, but couple of questions. Is there a reason to do different rears vs fronts? My buddy is telling me I should do the same pads all the way around to avoid brake bias. What is the school of thought on this? Also I may be going to my first track day next month, looking to get some track pads. Anyone have any experience with gloc r16's? Would those be a good pad or should I stick with r12's?

R16s are too much and you'll end up with less performance than R12 or R10 unless you're on slicks and heavy aero. @Flyhalf and @strengthrehab found this out the hard way.

You should run staggered pads precisely because of the brake bias of the system. An aggressive rear pad will lock up and engage abs early and reduce overall braking performance. The same is true of not enough rear pad bite, but for the opposite reason (front will engage abs and rear still has grip left to slow the car more). If it's you're first track day, I would recommend R10 fronts and R8 rears, or maybe R12/R10. The latter is more than necessary for a novice on street tires, so I would do the 10/8.

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[Cardude99]

R16s are too much and you'll end up with less performance than R12 or R10 unless you're on slicks and heavy aero. @Flyhalf and @strengthrehab found this out the hard way.

You should run staggered pads precisely because of the brake bias of the system. An aggressive rear pad will lock up and engage abs early and reduce overall braking performance. The same is true of not enough rear pad bite, but for the opposite reason (front will engage abs and rear still has grip left to slow the car more). If it's you're first track day, I would recommend R10 fronts and R8 rears, or maybe R12/R10. The latter is more than necessary for a novice on street tires, so I would do the 10/8.

Hey thank you for the reply, this event will be street tires, but hoping my next event will be on a set of 200 tw tires. Given that, should I just go for the r12/10 setup, or stay with the r10/8 for until I wear them out? I do autocross too but the stock pads seem to be okay for that as far as I can tell.

 

[BmacIL]

Hey thank you for the reply, this event will be street tires, but hoping my next event will be on a set of 200 tw tires. Given that, should I just go for the r12/10 setup, or stay with the r10/8 for until I wear them out? I do autocross too but the stock pads seem to be okay for that as far as I can tell.

I was grouping 200tw tires into that. 10/8 will be better for autocross too. I use them with great success.

 

[strengthrehab]

Yeah, R16/R12 combo on 305/35/18 NT01's did not work well for me. Now I'm on 200TW (305 RE71R) tires for autocross and my R10/R8 combo feels so much better.

 

[Cardude99]

Yeah, R16/R12 combo on 305/35/18 NT01's did not work well for me. Now I'm on 200TW (305 RE71R) tires for autocross and my R10/R8 combo feels so much better.

Can you elaborate? What happened when you used the more aggressive compounds?

 

[Cardude99]

R16s are too much and you'll end up with less performance than R12 or R10 unless you're on slicks and heavy aero. @Flyhalf and @strengthrehab found this out the hard way.

You should run staggered pads precisely because of the brake bias of the system. An aggressive rear pad will lock up and engage abs early and reduce overall braking performance. The same is true of not enough rear pad bite, but for the opposite reason (front will engage abs and rear still has grip left to slow the car more). If it's you're first track day, I would recommend R10 fronts and R8 rears, or maybe R12/R10. The latter is more than necessary for a novice on street tires, so I would do the 10/8.

Okay new question. What if abs is disconnected for the track? In that situation should I use the same pad on both? I'm hearing arguments on both sides so just trying to soak up as much info as I can

 

[BmacIL]

Okay new question. What if abs is disconnected for the track? In that situation should I use the same pad on both? I'm hearing arguments on both sides so just trying to soak up as much info as I can

Short answer: don't.

 

[strengthrehab]

Okay new question. What if abs is disconnected for the track? In that situation should I use the same pad on both? I'm hearing arguments on both sides so just trying to soak up as much info as I can

I'm not a big fan of disconnecting the ABS plug or pulling the fuse. It can alter the brake balance which I did not like on the track.

As for the issue I had, as soon as I put the 16/12 combo on my car, first track day, I experienced what others refer to as "ice mode". I pressed extremely hard on brakes without resulting slowing. Looking at the data traces, I had 900psi of brake pressure and only 0.5g of slowing on last track day. Very inconsistent. Which caused me to second guess every brake zone because I had no clue if the car would slow down or not. Pulling the pads showed a ton of glazing, also. I believe @Flyhalf had similar issues.

I replaced with less aggressive pads and no such behavior. I never found out what the issue was, but when I dropped pad aggressiveness, brake performance improved tremendously.

of course, YMMV.

 

[strengthrehab]

Short answer: don't.

Treed.

 

[Cardude99]

Short answer: don't.

Ya I had that same feeling. My friends are acting like I'm crazy but they have significantly more experience than I do so it's hard to question them. I suspect they are telling me to do advanced things that I probably shouldn't do at my skill level

 

[Cardude99]

I'm not a big fan of disconnecting the ABS plug or pulling the fuse. It can alter the brake balance which I did not like on the track.

As for the issue I had, as soon as I put the 16/12 combo on my car, first track day, I experienced what others refer to as "ice mode". I pressed extremely hard on brakes without resulting slowing. Looking at the data traces, I had 900psi of brake pressure and only 0.5g of slowing on last track day. Very inconsistent. Which caused me to second guess every brake zone because I had no clue if the car would slow down or not. Pulling the pads showed a ton of glazing, also. I believe @Flyhalf had similar issues.

I replaced with less aggressive pads and no such behavior. I never found out what the issue was, but when I dropped pad aggressiveness, brake performance improved tremendously.

of course, YMMV.

Thanks man. Appreciate the insight. I'm just trying to make sure I do things right if I go. I'm still on the fence. The risk of crashing my car combined with the expenses makes me remember why I stick to autocross lol.

 

[Radiation Joe]

Short answer: don't.

Please elaborate. I'm afraid of ABS on track for one basic reason ... I can't (or am afraid to try to) lock up all four during a spin. The old time rule was to lock up all four once you knew you weren't going to hit anything and let off when the car was pointed in the direction you wanted to go. The old spin and continue. With ABS, if you hit the brakes with the car pointed in the wrong direction, you go straight into whatever you're pointed at.
I don't believe abs has anything to do with brake bias unless engaged. Am I wrong about this?

 

[Cardude99]

Please elaborate. I'm afraid of ABS on track for one basic reason ... I can't (or am afraid to try to) lock up all four during a spin. The old time rule was to lock up all four once you knew you weren't going to hit anything and let off when the car was pointed in the direction you wanted to go. The old spin and continue. With ABS, if you hit the brakes with the car pointed in the wrong direction, you go straight into whatever you're pointed at.
I don't believe abs has anything to do with brake bias unless engaged. Am I wrong about this?

I think this is along the lines of what my friends are telling me but it's all a little over my head.

 

[Flyhalf]

Hey
First. I confess i didn't read all the replies lol.
I mainly use my car on roadcourse.
I have tried many options.
1. Started STOCK i found out it wasn't enough.
2. I upgraded my pads to Gloc r12 front and r10 rear with better result but still rotors were overheating amd car didn't stop well

I tried 2 aftermarket rotors
GIRODISC awesome product. Key pros : 11lbs lighter each. Much better heat dissipation = less wearing of the rotors and pads and more braking power(less heat so pads work better) =1000$ for both front. They last between 8-14 events (this may vary depending how fast you are and the tracks)
APR racing rotors. Great product. Slightly heavier than girodisc(half pound) but way more vents. These are my current rotors.
$1500 ish

If I was you i would take the GIRODISC to start.
NOTE. UPGRADE FLUID TO A GOOD DOT4 (motul 600 or 660 or castrol SRF)
Note2. Ventilation is the key. You can go with hoses (like i have) or vorshlag now has a bigger air deflector that is proven to reduce temps up to 100f more than standard hoses.
Pads : i didn't have much fortune with GLOC or carbotech. I love braking very hard on track.
My actual pads are FERODO DSUNO. I believe those are another level. Plus I use the on street with squick or noise (the noise that seems you are killing a cow lol).they cost more but they last more.

Last
Rear rotors. ford had the brilliant idea to put a 1 PISTON caliper paired with the infamous reverse rotors..in a 4000lbs car.. I change the rear rotors with steeda 2 piece rotors. 2 lbs lighter each those will last forever. This mod is somenthing you can do if things get serious for you on track.
Hope this help.
Alessandro

 

[Cardude99]

Hey
First. I confess i didn't read all the replies lol.
I mainly use my car on roadcourse.
I have tried many options.
1. Started STOCK i found out it wasn't enough.
2. I upgraded my pads to Gloc r12 front and r10 rear with better result but still rotors were overheating amd car didn't stop well

I tried 2 aftermarket rotors
GIRODISC awesome product. Key pros : 11lbs lighter each. Much better heat dissipation = less wearing of the rotors and pads and more braking power(less heat so pads work better) =1000$ for both front. They last between 8-14 events (this may vary depending how fast you are and the tracks)
APR racing rotors. Great product. Slightly heavier than girodisc(half pound) but way more vents. These are my current rotors.
$1500 ish

If I was you i would take the GIRODISC to start.
NOTE. UPGRADE FLUID TO A GOOD DOT4 (motul 600 or 660 or castrol SRF)
Note2. Ventilation is the key. You can go with hoses (like i have) or vorshlag now has a bigger air deflector that is proven to reduce temps up to 100f more than standard hoses.
Pads : i didn't have much fortune with GLOC or carbotech. I love braking very hard on track.
My actual pads are FERODO DSUNO. I believe those are another level. Plus I use the on street with squick or noise (the noise that seems you are killing a cow lol).they cost more but they last more.

Last
Rear rotors. ford had the brilliant idea to put a 1 PISTON caliper paired with the infamous reverse rotors..in a 4000lbs car.. I change the rear rotors with steeda 2 piece rotors. 2 lbs lighter each those will last forever. This mod is somenthing you can do if things get serious for you on track.
Hope this help.
Alessandro

Do you keep abs connected and on when you run or do you take out the fuse and run without it?

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