Total Mustang sales 2019 figure

[Hack]

So, isn't that 250 direct injection?

It has the 6.8 liter V10 gasoline engine. I'm pretty sure it's sequential port fuel injection. I didn't want the diesel engine because it sits a lot and I was worried about reliability problems and cold starting in the middle of the winter. I'm not really a diesel person - I prefer a gas engine with port injection.

A 5.0L Gen 3 Coyote can easily make 500whp reliably. An extra 50whp isn't going to make much of a difference running around town. If racing is your goal, the supercharger is the best bang for the buck. There is almost zero chance of any manufacturer purposely developing a larger engine to accomplish something that can be done better with FI.

I think I want more reliability than you do. Ford hasn't produced a 5.0 with 500 hp yet. I believe they can, since the 5.2 made 526. I would want a reliable engine, not something on the fine edge of failure. IMO going with more cubic inches would make it easy to achieve both 550-600 hp as well as rock solid reliability.

Once again, new engines can. Just like old engines, it isn't guaranteed without a lot of maintenance. Mid 90's explorers were pretty bad. You also can't directly compare engines in high strung sports cars to that of a grocery getter or soccer mom mobile (like a 210hp V8 Explorer from the 90s). Mitsubishi VR-4/Dodge Stealth TT engines were lucky to make it to 100k miles without needed a rebuilt. Almost every Subaru naturally aspirated engine from the 90s needed head gasket replacements before 100k. Even Ford has a launrdy list of trash in the 90s like the 2.9L V6 (cracked heads, sludge, lifter tick) and the 3.8L V6 (head gasket failures). Old was certainly not better if you look at the common issues back then. Today, people have a shitfit if their car can't go 100k without only needing basic oil changes.

I still see mid 90s Explorers on the road. The pushrod 302 engine was dead reliable. I had one in the past that lasted forever. I only got rid of it because the body of the vehicle was rotten. Like I said, not looking for a high-strung Ferrari engine that costs big bucks to maintain or replace. Something a little simpler with more power due to upping the cubes rather than pushing the limits of reliability.

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[13GetThere]

Agreed. I think we are only looking at short term loses. We do not know Ford's grand scheme. They are still selling car overseas so getting back into the US market, if need be, will not be that difficult. By the way there were almost 900K F150's sold in 2019. Kind of makes that 1.3m look pale in comparision.

As far as our Mustangs go, 2020 will see another sales drop (68/70K?) and then the 2021 refresh. Depending on what it is we might see a slight uptick although that didn't help in 2018. After that who knows. What's the kill point? 40K, 50K, 60K. Right now I'm hopeful for a S650 but not convinced it will happen.

YEAR TOTAL
2019 - 72,489
2018 - 75,842
2017 - 81,866
2016 - 105,932
2015 - 122,349
2014 - 82,635

By any chance, do you have the sales figures for the S197?

 

[torqued]

All UV's are not clown cars. You should drive an Escape or CX5. Both drive and handle like a sports sedan. The 2.0 in my wife's Escape is pretty darn quick too.

Heh, I was referring to looks. They look clownish to me with big, bloated, bulbous looks. I might add, same for full-size pickups.

My dad says his SUV doesn't ride as well as the Fusion he traded it in for. (Dunno if his Acura whatever is built on a car or truck platform. It's not their biggest, hulkingest model, that much I know.) But overall he's happier.

And as far as being temporary, you make it sound like these vehicles are new. The first Surburban was 1935. The Jeep Wagoneer was 1963. SUV/CUV's will die off when people stop buying them. It has nothing to do with Boomers.

You are correct sir, I was aware that the Suburban dated way back. For farm people. What I meant seeing dying off is SUV's for the rest of people. Unless something drastic and unforeseen changes and the younger generations in this country turn out to be as wealthy as their parents, this age of conspicuous capitalism and people parking on the street cuz their garages are filled with excess accumulated toys and stuff will pass.

 

[Bikeman315]

By any chance, do you have the sales figures for the S197?

Here you go.........

Ford Mustang
2014 82,635
2013 77,186
2012 82,995
2011 70,438
2010 73,716
2009 66,623
2008 91,251
2007 134,626
2006 166,530
2005 160,975
Total 1,006,975

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

During the Winter up in the Northern States, an all wheel drive SUV will go through taller snow drifts than a passenger car. Front wheel drive cars will spin the front tires going up snowy and icy hills. Rear wheel only passenger cars need to have weight put in the trunk to provide traction on snowy and slippery roads. I have driven on unplowed roads that had snow up to the front bumper on my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee and kept moving forward as the front bumper pushed the snow. Passenger cars just don't have enough clearance to work well in deep snow. Once you have owned a SUV , you just don't want to go back to a 4 door passenger car. Cars like the Mustang are different from family type passenger cars because they are desireable for those who want a sporty performance two door vehicle. Ford dealers will want the Mustang for the people who buy sporty cars.

 

[bootlegger]

I think I want more reliability than you do. Ford hasn't produced a 5.0 with 500 hp yet. I believe they can, since the 5.2 made 526. I would want a reliable engine, not something on the fine edge of failure. IMO going with more cubic inches would make it easy to achieve both 550-600 hp as well as rock solid reliability.

500whp on a Coyote isn't even close to the edge of failure. I think you give this engine far too little credit.

I still see mid 90s Explorers on the road. The pushrod 302 engine was dead reliable. I had one in the past that lasted forever. I only got rid of it because the body of the vehicle was rotten. Like I said, not looking for a high-strung Ferrari engine that costs big bucks to maintain or replace. Something a little simpler with more power due to upping the cubes rather than pushing the limits of reliability.

And I have seen N54 BMWs with 200-300k miles, achieved by only completing simple basic repairs. These cars have the early DI systems that had fuel pump issues. There are exceptions to everything.
If all you want is to go 300k miles, buy a Camry. If you are driving a Mustang GT like it was built to be driven, expect things to break by 100k.
I have no doubts that a Gen 3 Coyote will go 300k miles with proper maintenance and care. The technology in the engine is not the limiting factor for its lifespan. The engine isn't even close to its limits. I doubt the manual transmissions in these cars will last as long as the engine without some help.

 

[bootlegger]

During the Winter up in the Northern States, an all wheel drive SUV will go through taller snow drifts than a passenger car. Front wheel drive cars will spin the front tires going up snowy and icy hills. Rear wheel only passenger cars need to have weight put in the trunk to provide traction on snowy and slippery roads. I have driven on unplowed roads that had snow up to the front bumper on my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee and kept moving forward as the front bumper pushed the snow. Passenger cars just don't have enough clearance to work well in deep snow. Once you have owned a SUV , you just don't want to go back to a 4 door passenger car. Cars like the Mustang are different from family type passenger cars because they are desireable for those who want a sporty performance two door vehicle. Ford dealers will want the Mustang for the people who buy sporty cars.

I used to live in the mountains in WV. I will admit that an SUV or truck is completely necessary there for getting around in the winter. We have no snow here in Charleston, yet I see just as many trucks and SUVs on the road. SUVs are the new minivan for families. This is why we can't just make vehicles smaller in the auto industry. Most Americans want big roomy vehicles.

 

[Hack]

500whp on a Coyote isn't even close to the edge of failure. I think you give this engine far too little credit.

Ford hasn't offered a production version of the Coyote making that much power yet. And they've been building it for ~10 years. Either they don't want to make that much power or it's not that easy to achieve the reliability they want with that much power.

 

[bootlegger]

Ford hasn't offered a production version of the Coyote making that much power yet. And they've been building it for ~10 years. Either they don't want to make that much power or it's not that easy to achieve the reliability they want with that much power.

Ford Performance offers a warrantied 750hp supercharger kit for the 5.0L. Reliability isn't why they aren't offering a N/A 500whp package. It's all about emissions, fuel economy, and cost.

 

[Bikeman315]

Ford Performance offers a warrantied 750hp supercharger kit for the 5.0L. Reliability isn't why they aren't offering a N/A 500whp package. It's all about emissions, fuel economy, and cost.

I'm not sure when this conversation about Mustang sales for 2020 and beyond to a back and forth about the Coyote. Honestly what difference does it make? The Coyote for better (my opinion), of worse, is what we have. We are not getting a new V8, ever. The world is just not going in our direction. As far as HP, also what does it matter? We went from 435 to 460. Yeah, I feel that everyday driving up and down RT17 here in MB. So long as the number remain competitive it's all OK. Besides anyone ever hear of sandbagging? Do you really think a Coyote couldn’t do 500WHP with a little massaging? Ford will do what it need to do, when it needs to do it.

 

[EcoVert]

Besides anyone ever hear of sandbagging? Do you really think a Coyote could do 500WHP with a little massaging? Ford will do what it need to do, when it needs to do it.

That's why Mustang has such a huge aftermarket so we can tap into all that hidden HP.

 

[Hack]

Ford Performance offers a warrantied 750hp supercharger kit for the 5.0L. Reliability isn't why they aren't offering a N/A 500whp package. It's all about emissions, fuel economy, and cost.

I don't want a front heavy design with a supercharger on it. I'd prefer not to have turbos either if it could be avoided.

That supercharger (or turbos) either adds a ton of cost to the car. Simpler - reduce costs - keep the price low. That is what I think Ford should be trying to do with the Mustang.

 

[thill444]

I don't want a front heavy design with a supercharger on it. I'd prefer not to have turbos either if it could be avoided.

That supercharger (or turbos) either adds a ton of cost to the car. Simpler - reduce costs - keep the price low. That is what I think Ford should be trying to do with the Mustang.

If you look at the overall car market prices are just going up in every segment. More and more safety and tech, people want faster vehicles with more HP and better MPG's. They want larger vehicles with larger wheels and tires. It's the complete opposite of less complex and smaller/lighter. Front and rear cameras. 10" HD screens with 10+ speakers. Heated and cooled seats (and steering wheels). All the advanced safety and convenience features.

The problem is people want this stuff, even in their "sports cars" and this is why you see $50K+ Mustangs just like we see $50K+ Camaros and $50-60K+ Jeep wranglers and pickup trucks.

The average new car price now is pushing $40K.

It's crazy which is why we also see 8+ year car loans becoming more the norm.

 

[Armageddon Turbo]

I remember when they used to sell 200K a year or more.

 

[Hack]

If you look at the overall car market prices are just going up in every segment. More and more safety and tech, people want faster vehicles with more HP and better MPG's. They want larger vehicles with larger wheels and tires. It's the complete opposite of less complex and smaller/lighter. Front and rear cameras. 10" HD screens with 10+ speakers. Heated and cooled seats (and steering wheels). All the advanced safety and convenience features.

The problem is people want this stuff, even in their "sports cars" and this is why you see $50K+ Mustangs just like we see $50K+ Camaros and $50-60K+ Jeep wranglers and pickup trucks.

The average new car price now is pushing $40K.

It's crazy which is why we also see 8+ year car loans becoming more the norm.

I agree with most of what you are saying, other than fuel economy. People tend to buy expensive and big vehicles. Yes they do like better fuel economy, but most will choose a big vehicle over a vehicle with good fuel economy.

I am saying that Ford should be trying to keep their costs and prices down if they want to sell lots of vehicles and do well financially. Maybe I'm wrong about it, but I see the Mustang going out of my price range. And I think I'm in a decent financial position compared to most people. If a car crazy person like me feels priced out of the market - I see that as an issue for Ford.

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