First track day questions.

[Cardude99]

My buddies are trying to get me to venture out of autocross and to start doing a track day or two a year. They are insisting that I do race pads along with hi temp fluid for safety reasons. Also that given it's my first time I won't need any ins. Given that I know I'll do fluids, but how necessary are race pads vs stock ones? Is insurance something I should consider or am I overthinking it? What would you all do? Also anything else I haven't thought of?

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[EFI]

You do not need full blown race pads just to do 1-2 light track days a year. Maybe some that are a bit more high quality and aggressive than the stock base brakes, but you certainly don't need racepads.

Quality high temp fluid is definitely a good idea especially if you've been driving your stock one for a while.

For what you're doing, you do not need anything else except making sure your existing parts are in good shape (suspension, tires, rotors etc.) but that shouldn't be an issue on a relatively new car.

 

[Norm Peterson]

My buddies are trying to get me to venture out of autocross and to start doing a track day or two a year. They are insisting that I do race pads along with hi temp fluid for safety reasons. Also that given it's my first time I won't need any ins. Given that I know I'll do fluids, but how necessary are race pads vs stock ones? Is insurance something I should consider or am I overthinking it? What would you all do? Also anything else I haven't thought of?

I want to say you'd be OK on the OE pads for the first couple of events, but there's a couple of things getting in the way.

One is that you do have some autocross experience, which suggests to me that you're going to be a bit faster from the get-go than the average track newbie who lacks such experience.

The other thing is an assumption on my part that your rotors have the wheel-side air inlet to the rotor vents, which isn't as effective. For this reason alone I'd be looking at entry-level track pads, something like XP8/R8 to maybe XP10/R10 in Carbotech/G-loc. The main reason for making any specific mfr recommendation here is based on rotor-friendliness; Hawk pads in particular being unreasonably abrasive at least if you leave them in for street duty. Count on dust and some noise either way.

On the matter of track day insurance . . . it's really about how comfortable you are with the speeds and g's achieved vs things like available runoff room. How quickly you think you'll get comfortable with those g's at speeds double or more what you've seen at autocross. And how well you can keep the red mist in the bottle/out of the picture (never underestimate how starting to catch the driver ahead of you can influence your driving and control input timing).


Norm

 

[Grintch]

EB or EB PP?

Base brakes would worry me more.

How fast is the track? How severe are the braking zones?

While often it is recommended that Novices do not need to worry, the fact that you are an experienced autocrosser likely mean you will be pushing the car much harder than a typical track novice.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I buy the insurance every time its available. I (mostly) trust myself, but track days carry risk, and I’ve seen a friend’s car go up in flames due to only a little mud off-track and some dry grass clippings (hot exhaust + dry grass + a stuck car = grass fire). Then there are the other drivers.

for brake pads, it does depend on the track. A fluid flush is a must but the stock PP 6-pot brembo pads are pretty good and difficult for newer drivers (even medium experience autocrossers) to over heat. If you have base brakes take pads more seriously.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Also something to consider regarding track insurance are variables you can’t control. What if someone blows a hose in front of you, and you’re into a wall as a result. No amount of good driving or fast reaction time will remove that variable.

Also I suppose for totally green newbies there is sch a thing as a light track day. But for the rest of us if you’re out there trying to learn to drive faster I’d submit that there is no “light track day”. Most tracks have some serious consequences at one or more spots.

 

[1 old racer]

Something I learned a long time ago. If you cant afford to walk home without your ride from a track event , insure it for the track event
As far as brake pads and fluids. If you have the $$$ in your budget after the insurance start with the pads and fluids before anything else.
Something that may interest some of you. Way back in 1995 I bought a SN95 Crobra Mustang which had the first four piston caliper front brakes I drove on the track ( as far as a production car). I thought it was too good to be true. Now we look at the four piston set up as something that is substandard. Learn your car my friend You are already light years ahead of your fellow track stars from 20 year ago. and they did just fine with the old two piston calipers and OEM pads.

 

[Grintch]

Something I learned a long time ago. If you cant afford to walk home without your ride from a track event , insure it for the track event
As far as brake pads and fluids. If you have the $$$ in your budget after the insurance start with the pads and fluids before anything else.
Something that may interest some of you. Way back in 1995 I bought a SN95 Crobra Mustang which had the first four piston caliper front brakes I drove on the track ( as far as a production car). I thought it was too good to be true. Now we look at the four piston set up as something that is substandard. Learn your car my friend You are already light years ahead of your fellow track stars from 20 year ago. and they did just fine with the old two piston calipers and OEM pads.

The car was also a lot lighter, and slower. Any time the speeds or weight increase, the brakes have to do a lot more work.

Even if you had that same car today, it would be faster because the tires are better today.

And there are such things as light track days for many HPDE drivers. Most are not driving 100% all the time. Especially late in the session when the tires and brakes have gone off a little. Or in the scary corners that require maximum commitment and/or have no room for error. The driver is the #1 thing driving speed and how much brake you need. The track characteristics are #2.

 

[EFI]

Way back in 1995 I bought a SN95 Crobra Mustang which had the first four piston caliper front brakes I drove on the track ( as far as a production car). I thought it was too good to be true. Now we look at the four piston set up as something that is substandard. Learn your car my friend You are already light years ahead of your fellow track stars from 20 year ago. and they did just fine with the old two piston calipers and OEM pads.

I don't think anyone on here considers the base 4 piston calipers to be inferior purely from a number of pistons standpoint. Look at the Brembo 4 piston brakes from the S197 and those are highly regarded by track enthusiasts.

It's the rotor design that people worry about, not the pistons. Due to the inverted design, the cooling ability is greatly reduced and that can lead to problems on track.

Oh and as mentioned previously, the current S550 Mustang is alot heavier and alot faster than the 95 Cobra, so you can't really say that if an SN95 did ok with 2 piston calipers the S550 will also.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I don't think anyone on here considers the base 4 piston calipers to be inferior purely from a number of pistons standpoint. Look at the Brembo 4 piston brakes from the S197 and those are highly regarded by track enthusiasts.

It's the rotor design that people worry about, not the pistons. Due to the inverted design, the cooling ability is greatly reduced and that can lead to problems on track.

Oh and as mentioned previously, the current S550 Mustang is alot heavier and alot faster than the 95 Cobra, so you can't really say that if an SN95 did ok with 2 piston calipers the S550 will also.

Yeah its the rotor design.

 

[1 old racer]

All very good points.

 

[sonicc]

My buddies are trying to get me to venture out of autocross and to start doing a track day or two a year. They are insisting that I do race pads along with hi temp fluid for safety reasons. Also that given it's my first time I won't need any ins. Given that I know I'll do fluids, but how necessary are race pads vs stock ones? Is insurance something I should consider or am I overthinking it? What would you all do? Also anything else I haven't thought of?

Mustang wasn't my first track car, but when I took it to the track first 3 times it was completely stock. Stock pads (non-PP, premium 4 pots), stock fluid, stock pzero nero 255 tires. Only thing I "upgraded" was Amsoil 5w30 and Ford Racing oil filter. I pushed the car a little by little to see how the brakes and tires did...and for the most part they did fine showing only slight signs of fade towards the end of the day. After 3 track days pads were done lol, so at that time I upgraded pads and fluid. So to give you some advice based on my experience, just go with your car as is and don't aim to drive it at even 7/10ths. Feel out the car, then start upgrading stuff. If your brakes start feeling soft/weak after 3 laps, end the session early and let things cool off. If it does the same thing next session, call it a day and upgrade stuff for next time.

Even though insurance would be a smart thing, I never got it in the past. Now that I'm getting a little faster and more aggressive I'm starting to consider it more.

 

[Copperhead73]

Mustang wasn't my first track car, but when I took it to the track first 3 times it was completely stock. Stock pads (non-PP, premium 4 pots), stock fluid, stock pzero nero 255 tires. Only thing I "upgraded" was Amsoil 5w30 and Ford Racing oil filter. I pushed the car a little by little to see how the brakes and tires did...and for the most part they did fine showing only slight signs of fade towards the end of the day. After 3 track days pads were done lol, so at that time I upgraded pads and fluid. So to give you some advice based on my experience, just go with your car as is and don't aim to drive it at even 7/10ths. Feel out the car, then start upgrading stuff. If your brakes start feeling soft/weak after 3 laps, end the session early and let things cool off. If it does the same thing next session, call it a day and upgrade stuff for next time.

Even though insurance would be a smart thing, I never got it in the past. Now that I'm getting a little faster and more aggressive I'm starting to consider it more.

It has been 12 years since I have been to a track day. My first was CMP in Kershaw SC. I took my, at that time, bolt-on Terminator. It had completely stock brakes. I felt like I was driving the wheels off it, but I had friends in lesser equipped cars blistering me!

The stock brakes on those cars were certainly no better than current Mustang brakes. Those cars were heavy, too. IIRC ~3800 lbs with fluids. I don't recall having too much brake trouble on that first track day. I do recall being exhausted after each 20 minute session!

My second track day was at Gingerman a few months later. There was a guy in the Cobra Club there with a 2000 R that had just upgraded brakes and sold me (and installed!) his take off Brembos and rotors for $300, between sessions. It was definitely a worthwhile upgrade, and noticeably better. I completely agree with those saying to get a track day under your belt before you spend a bunch of money. Do Pads/Fluid at the most. Just get the feel and have fun. You will know what you want to do after that first day. You may also run into some great deals at the track depending on who is there.

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