"Mustang Mach E" Confirmed, Reservations Begin Immediately After Nov 17 Live-Streamed Reveal

[shogun32]

Ford’s last really good CEO was Alan Mullaly. Before Ford he was in aerospace. Boeing to be exact. More technical than furniture, for sure, but still not cars.

But Boeing was (is?) all about hard core engineering where mistakes cost lives. Good managers can come from furniture, but if you're leading a "pure" engineering and manufacturing firm, I think it's extremely helpful to have a background in the subject. If you read Mullaly's book he was appalled at what he found in Ford corporate culture and stomped hard on toes and fiefdoms to right the ship. Human beings and bureaucracies being what they are, they rear their ugly heads if not constantly chopped off. Maybe the "new guy" can continue Mullaly's good work but I'm skeptical.

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[Cobra Jet]

I’m holding out for the Mach E wagon.

You might get it...

I heard the new Bronco is now being delayed because Farley and Hack-it are telling Bill Ford that they need to rename it.

Yes, you guessed it - it’s now the “MustBroncheroang-E”. It will not only be a fully enclosed super larger SUV with no relational value to the heritage Bronco, but will also come with an optional open bed - to tap into the Ranchero resurrection...

Oh and the “E”? Well of course, that designates it’s going to be a 100% EV skateboard too; they couldn’t fit the new name ”MACHMustBroncheroang-E” across the tailgate, front fender or front grille... so they shortened the name (somewhat).

They also couldn’t use the new logo, which was planned as a Bull and Bronco F-ing a Mustang.... just not politically correct in these times... that’s still in re-design phase.



Can someone supply that concept render?

Carry on....

 

[Bull Run]

If you want to see just how screwed Ford is check out Hackett's Wikipedia page. His claim to fame is turning around Steelcase. Office furniture. That's what Ford thinks they're selling.

He turned it around with job cuts and modernizing their furniture with new, "modern" products. That's what he thinks he's doing. Making a new, modern line of widgets. The marketing people probably focus grouped him into branding it with Mustang. It means no more to him than any of the names that marketing people apply to office furniture.

If you think all of this nonsense in any way secures the future of the real Mustang, you're deluded. It's just their new marketing buzzword. Nothing would make these bean counters happier than to be able to maintain the halo affect of the Mustang brand name without the baggage of a declining market segment.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3528825-ford-reports-strong-demand-for-mustang-mach-e

As much as I dislike that they used the Mustang name for an EV based crossover, those bean counters/marketers may end up with a success story on their end. Problem is that most of the population are not auto enthusiasts and don't give a rat's ass about the heritage of the name Mustang.

"More than 80% of U.S. customers made Mach-E reservations with an extended range battery and 55% opted for all-wheel drive. Almost 30% of U.S. customers are choosing the Mach-E GT."

Notice how large majority people who reserved Mach-E opted for longer range over the faster GT version. And I doubt that a typical shareholder cares much about the heritage, either, as show by one of the comments:

"Don't care if the price goes up or down. As long as the dividend is covered and sustainable, I'm good."

Disclaimer: Aside from the name, I think that Ford's going the right direction by paying more attention to EVs since that's there the future's headed. I made a small speculative purchase of Ford stock soon after the announcement and it's up 6.2%, even after accounting for the general stock market loss today. No, I don't think ICEs will disappear over next few years as I also have oil stocks as well.

 

[nrc]

Skill sets required of a CEO often transcend product lines. Similar as with Sales Executives. It helps to have a good understanding of the product, but that doesn’t automatically exclude you. Case in point....Ford’s last really good CEO was Alan Mullaly. Before Ford he was in aerospace. Boeing to be exact. More technical than furniture, for sure, but still not cars.

Mullaly started as an engineer at Boeing and came up through program management. He understood that engineering was at the core of their business and it was the same with Ford. Hackett seems to think that he can take an electric Explorer and slap Mustang bodywork and badge on it and it's a good product. It's literally badge engineering.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3528825-ford-reports-strong-demand-for-mustang-mach-e

As much as I dislike that they used the Mustang name for an EV based crossover, those bean counters/marketers may end up with a success story on their end. Problem is that most of the population are not auto enthusiasts and don't give a rat's ass about the heritage of the name Mustang.

Well so much for seekingalpha's credibility. The press release they're citing is just a re-hash of the same old news that the "First Edition" Mach E trim level had sold out. Nothing new here.

The truth is that given Ford's limited first year production, the fact that they can't yet tout anything other than the sell out of an unspecified number of "First Edition" doesn't look good at all. If this vehicle were making the impact needed to justify destroying the Mustang legacy it should have easily sold out their first year of production in the first month.

The fact that it seems to be drawing very little interest outside of the eco-niche doesn't give much credence to those imagining that an EV future will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Bull Run]

Well so much for seekingalpha's credibility. The press release they're citing is just a re-hash of the same old news that the "First Edition" Mach E had sold out. Nothing new here.

The truth is that given Ford's limited first year production, the fact that they can't yet tout anything other than the sell out of an unspecified number of "First Edition" doesn't look good at all. If this vehicle were making the impact needed to justify destroying the Mustang legacy it should have easily sold out their first year of production in the first month.

I happened to post Seeking Alpha since I get e-mail and app notifications from them, but other outlets are pretty much reporting the same thing: https://news.google.com/stories/CAA...1d1RNei1qOVdLQUFQAQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

So do you think that it would've been better if the first edition didn't sell out quickly? Do you even know how many of them will even be produced during the first year?

The fact that it seems to be drawing very little interest outside of the eco-niche doesn't give much credence to those imagining that an EV future will happen sooner rather than later.

I highly doubt that all these financial sites are imagining that an EV future will happen sooner rather than later since they're pretty much long on oil stocks:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/11/27/3-top-oil-stocks-to-buy-right-now.aspx
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/16/his...-rising-this-is-easiest-way-to-bet-on-it.html
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4300632-case-for-going-long-oil-stocks

 

[nrc]

I happened to post Seeking Alpha since I get e-mail and app notifications from them, but other outlets are pretty much reporting the same thing: https://news.google.com/stories/CAAqOQgKIjNDQklTSURvSmMzUnZjbmt0TXpZd1NoTUtFUWpUdVlIampvQU1FU2t1d1RNei1qOVdLQUFQAQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

So do you think that it would've been better if the first edition didn't sell out quickly? Do you even know how many of them will even be produced during the first year?

Empty puff pieces all based on the same Ford press release. Ford announced the "First Edition" sellout back in November. They won't say how many that amounts to. For all we know they intended all along that the First Edition production run would be whatever they had reserved after that first week so that they could tout that meaningless milestone and give the illusion of great demand. The Cybertruck intro kind of overshadowed that so it seems like Ford decided to repeat it just to try to get some mileage out of it.

Selling out their entire production in the first year would amount to fewer than 2k sales per month in the US (allowing for dealer demos). The fact that people know those are the numbers available and yet seem in no rush to get in line isn't a good sign.

 

[shogun32]

Once MT gets their hand on one and takes it to VIR, runs it on street camber settings and 500 hardness tires and it comes within 2 seconds of the GT500 (segment time between T4-T7), they'll start flying off the shelves. /sarc
Unless Ford pulls a rabbit out of the hat I expect it'll be as much or more of a dud as if they had called it the Ford Escape-E (from jail - cause criminals be eco-conscious too, y'oh)

In the mean time they could have taken the EB Mustang and grafted on 2 electric motors to the "oil pan" like their recent patent filing and gotten an AWD torque-vectoring hybrid-drive Mustang with ~400 HP. Hang a generator off the crank and 2 banks of super-capacitors to either side of the I4 and Bob's your uncle.

 

[EcoVert]

Once MT gets their hand on one

MT has already blasted the Mach E as being worthless. Same old bullshit from the same old rag magazine if it's a Ford it's junk.

 

[martinjlm]

Mullaly started as an engineer at Boeing and came up through program management. He understood that engineering was at the core of their business and it was the same with Ford. Hackett seems to think that he can take an electric Explorer and slap Mustang bodywork and badge on it and it's a good product. It's literally badge engineering.



Well so much for seekingalpha's credibility. The press release they're citing is just a re-hash of the same old news that the "First Edition" Mach E trim level had sold out. Nothing new here.

The truth is that given Ford's limited first year production, the fact that they can't yet tout anything other than the sell out of an unspecified number of "First Edition" doesn't look good at all. If this vehicle were making the impact needed to justify destroying the Mustang legacy it should have easily sold out their first year of production in the first month.

The fact that it seems to be drawing very little interest outside of the eco-niche doesn't give much credence to those imagining that an EV future will happen sooner rather than later.

Regarding the bold part.... On that we definitely agree, but there is always more to the story. Mulally is a great example. Because he is a trained and degreed engineer with experience with a highly technical product, he was able to transition from a CEO role in one industry to a CEO role in another industry. That happens a lot. Not always successfully, though. But even when you have an engineer born and raised within the industry, it doesn't mean that they will make a good CEO. We were all really excited when Robert Stempel, a career engineer, was promoted to CEO of GM. It didn't take long to realize he was in way over his head. He was a great engineer, but didn't have the right skillset to be a CEO.

Hackett has more of a marketing background. Marketing backgrounds (and sales backgrounds) also tend to transition well from industry to industry. In his case, maybe not so much. I lived through one of those too.

We had Ron Zarella come in from heading Bausch & Lomb marketing to head up GM marketing. I still have nightmares from an executive conference where he basically yelled at us for criticizing the Aztek and "challenged" all of us to ask to be assigned one as a company car so that we could demonstrate to people how well it drives. He was right that the thing drove really nice. Thing is, it was so butt ugly that you couldn't get a customer to get in the thing to see how well it drove. I was really disappointed that a guy who lived his career in marketing couldn't remember that one of the 4 Ps of marketing is PACKAGE. And the Aztek was one ugly package.

 

[shogun32]

It's rare for an engineer to be any good at the people management business. Engineers (good ones) tend to be abrasive people who have zero regard for "feelings" since their work is wrapped in hard numbers that can not be hand-waved away. Sales/Marketing types generally have no understanding of the hardness of engineering and maffs so their eyes glaze over when confronted by reality. "Just make it happen" is all they can muster.

I think Mulally success was a result of attacking Ford bureaucracy with the zeal of "get the F! out of my (engineers') way" but stopping short of telling off the marketing and sales people as useless wankers. The problem with any deep bureaucracy is the middle and upper layers forget that the smarts are at the lower rungs. IMO in a place like Ford the Engineers should be paid dramatically more than senior management, and assembly workers more than accountants. Accounts and management may be necessary but they are a cost center and drain on the actual productive resources.

 

[bluestang50]

Empty puff pieces all based on the same Ford press release. Ford announced the "First Edition" sellout back in November. They won't say how many that amounts to. For all we know they intended all along that the First Edition production run would be whatever they had reserved after that first week so that they could tout that meaningless milestone and give the illusion of great demand. The Cybertruck intro kind of overshadowed that so it seems like Ford decided to repeat it just to try to get some mileage out of it.

Selling out their entire production in the first year would amount to fewer than 2k sales per month in the US (allowing for dealer demos). The fact that people know those are the numbers available and yet seem in no rush to get in line isn't a good sign.

Considering the first year production run is expected to be at max 55k units and over 20k units were reserved in the first two weeks leaves you grasping at straws. Ford's reservation was $500 vs Tesla's $100 so those numbers really can't be compared. I distinctly remember the huge number of people I know that put a $100 reservation of the Model 3 and no one I know currently owns one. You could say the same for Ford's reservation numbers not holding water either but $500 is a little more skin in the game and Ford will actually deliver on time unlike Tesla.

"More than 80% of U.S. customers made Mach-E reservations with an extended range battery and 55% opted for all-wheel drive. Almost 30% of U.S. customers are choosing the Mach-E GT."

Notice how large majority people who reserved Mach-E opted for longer range over the faster GT version.

The GT is considered part of the "long range" segment as it has the larger battery pack. So 20% chose the small battery pack versions, 30% chose the GT (large battery pack), and 50% chose the non GT large battery pack models whether they are rwd or awd. So the comparison you should be making is 50% chose long range over the 30% choosing the GT. Now compare that to the fact that the Mustang Ecoboost makes up nearly 50% of mustang sales. That looks to be great performance sales numbers for a crossover.

 

[shogun32]

Now compare that to the fact that the Mustang Ecoboost makes up nearly 50% of mustang sales.

because it has a low price. IMO for the Mach-E to be a home run it needs to be priced similarly - even if it doesn't have huge (>200mi) range. If longer range is $35K and super-performance is a little north of $40k it should do well enough.

 

[Bull Run]

Empty puff pieces all based on the same Ford press release. Ford announced the "First Edition" sellout back in November. They won't say how many that amounts to. For all we know they intended all along that the First Edition production run would be whatever they had reserved after that first week so that they could tout that meaningless milestone and give the illusion of great demand. The Cybertruck intro kind of overshadowed that so it seems like Ford decided to repeat it just to try to get some mileage out of it.

Selling out their entire production in the first year would amount to fewer than 2k sales per month in the US (allowing for dealer demos). The fact that people know those are the numbers available and yet seem in no rush to get in line isn't a good sign.

It would've been better if Ford put out a solir number, but I heard an estimate of 50k being produced for the first year, limited by the battery supply. My bet is that Ford will sell all or almost all of them, just like how Chevy will sell C8s like hotcakes despite purists saying that it's not a true Corvette due to the engine location and lack of MT.

Bean counters made it clear that they don't care about the Mustang heritage. Majority of stocks are held by institutions that probably don't care about the heritage either. Seems like you know for sure that a large portion of the population is mad about it and Ford will crash and burn due to this, so why don't you and others short Ford stock? I can only see an upside in you shorting the stock:

1. Make a profit based on your conviction that whatever Ford's putting out are lies.
2. A noticeable spike in short positions due to the outrage will surely get the attention of the bean counters and institutional shareholders.

Hell, there's even a chance of a recession or correction next year, and since consumer discretionary sector tends to get hit hardest during recessions, you may profit regardless of how Mach-E turns out.

 

[Bull Run]

The GT is considered part of the "long range" segment as it has the larger battery pack. So 20% chose the small battery pack versions, 30% chose the GT (large battery pack), and 50% chose the non GT large battery pack models whether they are rwd or awd. So the comparison you should be making is 50% chose long range over the 30% choosing the GT. Now compare that to the fact that the Mustang Ecoboost makes up nearly 50% of mustang sales. That looks to be great performance sales numbers for a crossover.

Thanks for the clarification, what's the max range of GT vs RWD "long rang"? My guess is that large majority will be purchasing this as a commuter.

 

[shogun32]

My guess is that large majority will be purchasing this as a commuter.

I think so too which makes the whole "gotta have long range" mostly a moot point except for paper benchmarks. 180-200mi will cover it handily I should think.

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