What is the deal with the hostility and resentfulness here now?

[Dfeeds]

A franchise moving to another city (can't remember which) is why my dad fell out of following pro sports. He realized that it was about the money and not the fans, the history, or love of the game.

When I was in college I had to pick a modern commercial and write a paper on it (demographic, history, product info, etc). It was also the year the coyote was first released in a Mustang, so I picked that commercial that showed off the 5.0 badge and showed the Mustant backing out of a crate (or trailer? I don't remember). It was fun because that commercial clearly cattered towards older fans of the foxbody and the pushrod 5.0. Not even a decade later and it's all done a 180

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[Sivi70980]

Let's round that out to an hour...carry the one...divide by my hourly rate...yup, my time is still worth more. Seriously though, this is like the "free hotdog". It's only free if you don't value your time. Personally, I do, and very highly at that. Which is why my boss has to pay me to show up and do my job.

What's your typical range on a 400 mile journey? You stated in other threads you haul some serious ace in your car so I'm curious. Also an attempt to maybe put it in a different perspective, do you time your normal fuel stops? Without timing my own, I think they happen in 5-7 minutes on average. I get gas at about 1/4 tank so that's 25% to 100% capacity. @zackmd1 can give us real world times but he said already 15-25 minutes from 20% to 80%. So you're back on the road in the EV 10-18 minutes later. The time matters a lot less if you have to use the restroom or any other number of variables that would make your stop take longer. For me anyways, I don't see this being much of an issue. Seriously, what's 10 minutes? Nobody on this planet can tell me their time is so valuable to others that they can't spare any throughout the day. I mean, we're writing on a forum, that's literally wasted time lol.

 

[IronG]

What's your typical range on a 400 mile journey? You stated in other threads you haul some serious ace in your car so I'm curious. Also an attempt to maybe put it in a different perspective, do you time your normal fuel stops? Without timing my own, I think they happen in 5-7 minutes on average. I get gas at about 1/4 tank so that's 25% to 100% capacity. @zackmd1 can give us real world times but he said already 15-25 minutes from 20% to 80%. So you're back on the road in the EV 10-18 minutes later. The time matters a lot less if you have to use the restroom or any other number of variables that would make your stop take longer. For me anyways, I don't see this being much of an issue. Seriously, what's 10 minutes? Nobody on this planet can tell me their time is so valuable to others that they can't spare any throughout the day. I mean, we're writing on a forum, that's literally wasted time lol.

You are not really comparing apples to apples here. First, the distance to get to a gas station and EV station are not the same. You need to plan it out more and 98% of the time you are going further to get to the EV station, especially a fast charger. Also, there isn't always something else to do let alone go to the bathroom at most EV sites at least not conveniently. So the time difference could be double or more (maybe much more) in most cases. Also, you should not be using the Mustang as a comparison to a Model 3. They are made for entirely different use cases. The vehicle we use for most trips is my wife's Honda Pilot. On highway type trips, we will get about 450 mile range down to 20%. So your time difference goes out the window. My guess that going 1000 miles, you are adding at least 90 minutes and probably as much as 2 hours for nothing more than fueling. Not sure most people would be ok with that. I know I am not. Sure with some thoughtful investigation and planning you might get closer to the 90 minute mark more often, but you still need to include that time as well as you could be do other things rather than using that 30 minutes or so to plan stuff out. When that time can be cut to say 30 minutes or less (more), let me know. Another thing, if any of the EV stations are crowded or out of service, your plan gets rocked. Too many gas stations for that to really matter. I really have nothing against EV's in general, but I do have issues with people trying to minimize the issues with them. As a DD for a 80 mile round trip commute or less, they are fine, but they are not what most people want right now for many reasons that far out weight the good reasons to have them. I also can't stand the interiors of most EV's, especially the ones with the bare dashboards and giant TV in the center that looks like an 8yr old designed it. Until they make a more complete, visually pleasing and ergonomic controls, count me out. Maybe my old pal VW will get that right as Audi seems to have done a pretty nice job with theirs so far.

 

[Sivi70980]

400 miles is a single stop for fuel. Car gets 20+ cruising in 10th at 100mph. Fuel stop time depends on the pump, some are painfully slow. I've actually driven away with only a gallon added because it was taking too long. As to the forum posting, time spent being entertained is not time wasted. Time spent not driving/eating/site-seeing on a roadtrip is wasted time.

Slow pumps are soooo annoying! I tend to be patient but slow pumps get under my skin for sure. So same 400 mile journey and there's only the time difference of 10-18 minutes. Being that that 10-18 minutes can be made up or lost in so many other ways on that 400 mile journey I still don't see it as an issue at all.

My mini got better mpg at 95mph than at 60-75mph. Awesome that the stang can still get 20+ at 100mph. I see some road trips to Mexico in my future.

 

[Sivi70980]

You are not really comparing apples to apples here. First, the distance to get to a gas station and EV station are not the same. You need to plan it out more and 98% of the time you are going further to get to the EV station, especially a fast charger. Also, there isn't always something else to do let alone go to the bathroom at most EV sites at least not conveniently. So the time difference could be double or more (maybe much more) in most cases. Also, you should not be using the Mustang as a comparison to a Model 3. They are made for entirely different use cases. The vehicle we use for most trips is my wife's Honda Pilot. On highway type trips, we will get about 450 mile range down to 20%. So your time difference goes out the window. My guess that going 1000 miles, you are adding at least 90 minutes and probably as much as 2 hours for nothing more than fueling. Not sure most people would be ok with that. I know I am not. Sure with some thoughtful investigation and planning you might get closer to the 90 minute mark more often, but you still need to include that time as well as you could be do other things rather than using that 30 minutes or so to plan stuff out. When that time can be cut to say 30 minutes or less (more), let me know. Another thing, if any of the EV stations are crowded or out of service, your plan gets rocked. Too many gas stations for that to really matter. I really have nothing against EV's in general, but I do have issues with people trying to minimize the issues with them. As a DD for a 80 mile round trip commute or less, they are fine, but they are not what most people want right now for many reasons that far out weight the good reasons to have them. I also can't stand the interiors of most EV's, especially the ones with the bare dashboards and giant TV in the center that looks like an 8yr old designed it. Until they make a more complete, visually pleasing and ergonomic controls, count me out. Maybe my old pal VW will get that right as Audi seems to have done a pretty nice job with theirs so far.

Hmmm, yeah you just obliterated my argument lol. I obviously missed a few things in my thinking here. And I can't agree more about the interiors, they are the worst. I do like the concept of EV's and enjoyed the model S I test drove but I might be trying to like them more than I really do...at least in their current state. They do seem great for just daily commuting as you said and I'm considering one for my wife in the next 5ish years, she HATES getting gas lol.

 

[IronG]

Let me try an analogy.

Suppose you're a die-hard NFL football fan with a particularly strong allegiance to one team. Like you wear a team jersey while watching at home and the TV is at risk of being a target when a questionable call goes against them. Doesn't matter if it's the Eagles or the Redskins or the Cowboys or the Patriots or, well, you know.

Now suppose that your favorite football team - I'll use the Cowboys here - decides to expand their name branding into a different sport and hung their 'Cowboy' tag on something like a "Dallas Cowboy Soccer" team or a "Dallas Cowboy Field Hockey" league.

You international folks might use something like your city's soccer team licensing their name to a dart throwing team.

Doesn't that make it easier to see how expanding the use of an iconic name dilutes and devalues it?


Norm

Norm nice.....I have another one.....It would be like adding water to the end of Gatorade - Gatorade Water or GW. Sure, you might get some additional benefits from drinking it over water and it may be less expensive over time if you drink less because of those benefits, but it is still more expensive to make and purchase and not as easy to get it. With water you can drink at home and bring it with you. You can find it almost anywhere. With GW, you must go to places that sell it and take time to find it at those places. So once GW is available like water, costs the same or less, it will be better or at least the same as water. Ah I forgot to add that adding water to the end of Gatorade would make a lot of people upset as it is not really water. Sure some would be fooled into assuming it was water, but you know what they say about assuming....

 

[IronG]

Does it have what plants crave?

Unknown, but maybe the better question is do they like the sound it makes better? I heard GW was very quiet compared to water that has a nice growl. :-)

 

[Sivi70980]

This lol. LOVE this movie

 

[lacanteen]

Re-sized pic

 

[Sivi70980]

Hhahahahahahah

 

[Pnasty]

The mach-E is pretty awesome but shouldn't be a mustang by name or badge

Performance EV's are absolute rocket ships and are great for many things but are dull and boring in regards to being a "drivers car" (in most enthusiasts minds) For example, my kia stinger is faster than my 5.0 ever was but Im looking at trading back because i miss the noise, feeling, and drama

EV's are taking over and we all hate it, I want to hear a cam chop and smell rubber burn like a real American!! YEEYEE

/thread

 

[Bikeman315]

400 miles is a single stop for fuel. Car gets 20+ cruising in 10th at 100mph.

Northern or Southern State?

 

[Bikeman315]

Hmmm, yeah you just obliterated my argument lol. I obviously missed a few things in my thinking here. And I can't agree more about the interiors, they are the worst. I do like the concept of EV's and enjoyed the model S I test drove but I might be trying to like them more than I really do...at least in their current state. They do seem great for just daily commuting as you said and I'm considering one for my wife in the next 5ish years, she HATES getting gas lol.

So we are heading out this morning and my wife tells me that she has 11 miles left on her gas gauge. Why i ask. Well she doesn't like pumping her own gas.

My daughter decides to try plugging in her Honda Clarity. She only has 120V at this time but no big deal. Why I ask. Well she's on empty. And she doesn't like pumping her own gas.

 

[martinjlm]

I'll try to explain this in the most logical non emotional way possible.

1. Right now it's a gimmick, there literally is no infrastructure for electric vehicles on a massive scale, especially when you factor in we live in a world where municipalities cannot even get a road paved in a timely manner. You would be a fool to believe this would be rolled out that soon; not to mention the waste of disposing of ice vehicles if gas vehicles were to be outlawed. It will be cash for clunkers on a much larger scale.

There is no plan anywhere to ban ICE vehicles. There are some areas of Europe where city centers are Zero Emissions Zones where only electric vehicles, fuel cell vehicles, and plug-in hybrids can drive, but they are rare. There are cities and even a couple countries that have talked about banning sales of ICE vehicles sometime after 2030. Thing is, they have not said they would ban operation of ICE cars already in existence and whether they like it or not, there will likely not be enough production of EVs to satisfy demand in a "you can only buy EV" economy.

2. Right now it's technology for the sake of technology, unless more efficient plants are going to to be built overnight you're just literally moving the source of pollution from the tailpipe to the coal plants. Electric pushers never seem to bring up the risks of electromagnetic smog or dirty electricity either because its invisible to the naked eye. The term is "technocrat", its people who think more technology is the magic bullet towards everything and think they have it all figured out and are telling me what's good for me when they themselves don't practice what they preach. Im in IT I know for a fact when more tech is railroaded in without proper research and planning it will become a disaster not if. I work on my cars to get away from technology and toxic social media platforms not to go right back to it. These are no longer cars but an iPad attached to wheels.

Even the larger electricity generating monopolies are moving away from coal. In Michigan, both DTE and Consumers Power (the two largest electricity providers) are retiring coal plants and replacing them with solar and wind turbine power generation. I doubt that their goal is 100% replacement, but they are looking at reducing the percentage of electricity is generated from coal.

3. If they actually figure out the infrastructure (so im not contradicting my first point) It's the next step towards full automation, once all cars are electric and they will ban the driver next and make everything glorified public transportation aka uber/Lyft services with vehicles self driven to you. An old Chrysler engineer on Allpar actually brought up this point before this electric/automation craze became a thing. No desire to own a vehicle I cannot pilot. This will not be the same from horse and carriage to automobiles this will be literally be the next step towards eliminating the driver even though one of the main reasons driving attentiveness has decreased was cellular phones (technology) in the first place.

There is not any stated intent to completely replace ICE with electric, especially in the US. A lot of people confuse the terms "electric" and "electrified". Mercedes-Benz, for example, has publicly stated that by 2030, all of there vehicles will be electrified. Not electric....electrified. Meaning that there will be cars with 2.0T, 3.0TT and 4.0TT gasoline and diesel engines that also include a 48V mild hybrid system (mHEV) and others that have 2.0T and 3.0TT gasoline engines with plug-in hybrid systems (PHEV). Then they will also have their EQ line of vehicles which will be pure battery electric. Other brands are making similar choices. We should expect to see a significant growth in mHEV and PHEV vehicles. Spec a new Jeep Wrangler when you get a chance and check the E-Torq option. I used Mercedes as an example because their strategy is more clearly spelled out. As far as replacing all cars with autonomous....not in our or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. The volume of vehicle production required to replace even a fraction of cars on the road would take decades to install.

The company I work for now is the world's primary source of vehicle production and sales forecasting information. We do not forecast EVs accounting for more than 10% of US sales of vehicles until around 2026 - 27. It's somewhere around 1.5 - 2.0% now. Higher in California of course. I think 3.5%. China and Europe will cross 10% a couple years before that, but the US is trailing the world in that area. We don't forecast out far enough to say when it will be 20%, let alone 50%. ICE will be around for a long time. A lot of it with additional electrification.

4. There is no cost savings and range anxiety over a gas vehicle. Wasn't the whole point of these vehicles was for better efficiency and not being tethered to a pump as much? Looks like more tethering to me. By means am I against progressing energy (on a base level, we haven't even graduated beyond explosion-based derivatives of energy yet) celll phones on wheels with lithium batteries goes against the original Nikola Tesla's goal of truly clean and easily obtainable energy. Elon Musk the PayPal guy is no car guy, no real environmentalist, he is no different than what many of the oil conglomerates that Musk fans disdain. When/if this becomes mainstream the big oil companies will just switch over their stakes into electric and it to will be a metered form of energy you have to subscribe to and with no real cost savings in the long run. People yelling buzzwords "angry old men" or "boomer" are really doing themselves a disservice (especially when me and many others concerned about this trend are in our late 20/Early thirties) are going to be eating crow in the future when they are limited to automated pods that whisk them to/from work everyday with no real driver interaction while still eating the costs for such a revamped infrastructure.

The only time range anxiety would even be an issue with the new crop of long range (>200 mile range) EVs would be long trips that extend beyond the range of the vehicle. Most people will wake up every morning with a "full tank". Something that does not happen with ICE cars. Most people don't drive 200 miles in a week, let alone a day, so charging th vehicle overnight makes range anxiety a moot point. Personally, I might make 10 trips a year that have me driving more than 200 miles in a day. Probably only 4 or 5 that require more than 300 miles (the next generation of EVs). I typically don't make long lasting vehicle choices based on something I only do a handful of times a year. I just take another vehicle. If it doesn't exist in my garage, that's why they have rental car companies. Contrast that to the number of gas station stops EV owners avoid making. At 5 minutes a stop (probably realistically 10) and figure on 2 or 3 a month. Let's call it 15 minutes a month. That's 180 minutes a year at gas pumps saved by letting your car charge overnight. So if I burn half of that on one long trip...meh.

Disagree all you want but that is the best way I can put into words the resentment not only about the mach e but electric cars in general. Start making them look like actual cars not gadgets or appliances, be truly clean (not delayed emissions), keep the automation to a minimum, and actually be visceral and I'll be the first to gladly leave gas vehicles forever.

Hmmm, yeah you just obliterated my argument lol. I obviously missed a few things in my thinking here. And I can't agree more about the interiors, they are the worst. I do like the concept of EV's and enjoyed the model S I test drove but I might be trying to like them more than I really do...at least in their current state. They do seem great for just daily commuting as you said and I'm considering one for my wife in the next 5ish years, she HATES getting gas lol.

When the Chevrolet Volt came out I had to talk my wife into even trying one. She wound up getting a 3-year lease on one in 2012. When the lease was up and it was time to consider a new vehicle, she insisted on it being another Volt and just drove the 2012 on a month-to-month extension until the 2nd gen came out. Her rationale? She had not had to stop at a gas station the entire time she owned the 2012 and couldn't even place a value on how important that was. She didn't realize how much she hated stopping at gas stations (spoiler alert... the few times it needed gas, I filled it). When GM cancelled the Volt and the lease on her 2017 ran out, we just bought the car. Mach E might be on her short list to replace it.

 

[Bikeman315]

EV's are taking over and we all hate it

Oh stop......... EV's are not taking over yet, it will be many many years before they even come close.

And not everyone hates EV's. Just ask Zack. What we all dislike is a four door CUV named Mustang. The fact that it is also an EV makes some dislike it even more.

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