Last year for V8 2024 (and Mach-E discussion) via Ford Performance conference call

[stangman638]

there is no green new deal

Sponsored

 

[OX1]

You sure about that? people treat cars like crap just look around daily. you hardly see a car older than 10 years on the road. And also performance cars go fast... hell the new corvette isn't even for sale yet and there have already been 6 wrecked. People get behind the wheel and the numbers of good cars on the road go down quick.

Assuming 300 cities of 100K people or more and just autotrader by itself, yields 1000 used V-8 Mustangs within 200 miles of me (no classics, as that is a different search board altogether),
so that's approx 60K mustangs for all cities. Multiply that by lets say 2 from GM, and 2 from Dodge, that's 60K x 5, so 300K approx. So this doesn't count ANY area beyond a US major city, only looks at
ONE site that has them for sale, only considers 5 vehicles, and does not include any vehicle older than 1990, so yeah, saying millions might not be that far off.

 

[Ericc B]

Also, as well as his loyalty to the Mustang, he also has to consider his responsibilities to his family.

Yeah that's always a consideration and obviously we are not qualified to judge on that. The fact that he has left Ford Performance and has taken on the position of global director of product line management for Ford icons puzzles me though, because that makes him directly responsible for the continued success of the Mustang brand and it will be his head when this whole Mustang branding thing fails. I fear that by being in Team Edison too long he has been hit with a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[EcoVert]

If he's still fighting battles (or slaying dragons.....if you've seen A Faster Horse ).....to keep S550/S650 a true muscle/sports/pony car with a V8 option, I'll be glad he didn't resign. Sometimes you just have to choose your battles wisely and I suspect he knew Mach E was one he couldn't win. Besides, whilst I'm sure he could walk into another job at a cross-town rival, the man bleeds Ford blue. Also, as well as his loyalty to the Mustang, he also has to consider his responsibilities to his family.

I agree besides Ford is paying him to do a job so he's going to do the job he's asked to do. I don't agree with everything my company tells me to do but I do it anyway if I don't they'll bring somebody into replace me that will.

 

[Briebee72]

Assuming 300 cities of 100K people or more and just autotrader by itself, yields 1000 used V-8 Mustangs within 200 miles of me (no classics, as that is a different search board altogether),
so that's approx 60K mustangs for all cities. Multiply that by lets say 2 from GM, and 2 from Dodge, that's 60K x 5, so 300K approx. So this doesn't count ANY area beyond a US major city, only looks at
ONE site that has them for sale, only considers 5 vehicles, and does not include any vehicle older than 1990, so yeah, saying millions might not be that far off.

yes yes I know. but my point was that in "HIS LIFETIME and probably others lifetimes" yes there is millions today... right now... cause they are still being produced. but in a lifetime from now there won't be and once electric takes over there wont be millions either. My point was they drop off fast and get wrecked and so on... once electric takes over you won't find millions laying about.

And about my averages comment. one I was sorta joking hence the LOL. but actually averages are way off and nothing to take seriously. you could have a pool of 1000 people and 100 kept their car for 70 years and the other 900 a week and the average (not gonna do the math) would be like oh the average car owner keeps their car 20 years. averages are skewed and not a good go to. like the average american median income is 63,179 dollars. One I dont know many that make that and two the poverty rate is nearly 13% . You have 3 rich states that skew the numbers. LA alone has 300,000 millionaires. ... blah blah this is a car forum LOL. my point averages are BS. any math teacher will tell you.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yeah me too. Change is inevitable. Some people can't accept change and live in a strange little world they create where nothing will ever change while the rest of the world leaves them behind. I use to own a computer repair business and it was hell in 2005 still trying to get people to quit using windows 98. Stuff would not update, it go out of business, and any other number of things...drivers would not work on old OS.... yet they insisted on using it and complaining it doesn't work cause you know they won't change.

The easy answer to that is that it's a waste of peoples' time to force them to continually set up and get comfortable with yet another new operating system. And of money, to buy new software to do the same stuff that they did with the existing software. It's like telling the carpenter that the nail gun he currently carries on his truck isn't good enough to drive nails with any longer and he's obliged to buy the new one just to do the same old jobs.

Never mind the recent-ish concept of apparently having to subscribe to your productivity software instead of buying your CD-ROM and loading it just once for as long as that computer lives.

I think that the older you are, the more you see such practices as being wasteful, pure and simple. Younger people have way too much of an "everything is disposable" attitude.

It is no different than those people who are into their 50s and 60s and are still living in high school in their head cause they cant let go of the past and move on with the times.

I have no problem buying what I need (or much of what I might want, for that matter) but I won't buy just to buy or to have the "latest and greatest". Or because somebody else thinks I'm supposed to want the exact same things that they want or do things the same way that they prefer to. Hopefully with age comes a little wisdom and some self-understanding, but you kind of have to have a few years (decades?) under your belt to even recognize such things.

I don't offhand know how old you are, but I do know it's easy to take pot-shots at older folks like that. The flip side is that it falls under youthful ignorance to assume that every facet of a senior's attitude makeup was locked in before they hit age 20.


Norm
​

 

[Copperhead73]

I don't offhand know how old you are, but I do know it's easy to take pot-shots at older folks like that. The flip side is that it falls under youthful ignorance to assume that every facet of a senior's attitude makeup was locked in before they hit age 20.


Norm
​

Every 60 year old has been a 20 year old.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Pretty sure even Ford can't swing a V8 producing less than 95g/km CO2 !

It depends what you mean by compliant. The Mustang V8 is Euro 6.2 compliant so can be sold in Europe, but it still produces loads of CO2 which makes it unviable from next year. When an Ecoboost 999cc triple Fiesta produces 99g/km that just demonstrates how tough it is going to be to reach the 95g/km average.

Which tells me that 95g/km is an unrealistic target.

And for those of you that haven't driven a high performance electric vehicle it will destroy anything with an ICE.

EV fans always fall back on that, either without realizing or refusing to realize that there's more to car enthusiasm than 0-60 and ET numbers.

Perhaps they should expand their driving experience to include something like a T-bucket powered by a Windsor SBF or a 327 Chevy. Better yet, a 'ported and relieved and stroked and bored' flathead with old-timey glasspacks.

Norm

 

[wjfawb0]

My post earlier was my experience with the decline in quality from Ford.

As for V8s, cold star emissions are easier to meet with small turbo engines that heat up fast and have smaller cylinders. Manufacturers also put the cats close to the heads, integrate the headers into a cast head, etc. Ever wondered why late model mustangs shut off after 10 minutes of idling? I've been told by some engineers in the business that cold start emissions are starting to be a controlling factor in a lot of the engine and drivetrain designs. Below is an excerpt describing what is done to curb them.


https://www.caee.utexas.edu/prof/kockelman/public_html/TRB15coldstarts.pdf

Strategies for Reducing Cold Start Emissions
308 Several strategies exist for reducing cold-start emissions. For example, since starting emissions shares are
309 most significant on shorter trips, de Nazelle et al. (2010) considered the environmental benefits of shifting
310 to alternative modes, like biking and walking, for journeys less than 3 miles in distance. They found that
311 the associated emissions reductions exceeded those associated with many projects funded by the federal
312 Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Improvement Program, including natural gas buses,
313 hybrid fleet vehicles, and tolled freeway lanes.
314
315 Other changes can also prove very valuable. For example, a fleet shift toward hybrid electric vehicles can
316 delay need for and use of a catalytic converter until it is pre-heated. Fully electric vehicles may shift
317 travel-related emissions to remote power-generating units or even ultimately derive their power from
318 clean renewable feedstocks (Nichols et al., 2014). Systems of shared autonomous vehicles may also
319 reduce the incidence of cold starts by avoiding engine cool-down periods, and thus yield significant
320 emissions savings (Fagnant and Kockelman, 2014).
321
322 Along with these potential mode shifts and vehicle-type shifts, the key is to warm the catalytic converter
323 as quickly as possible, reducing the level of cold-start emissions in conventional vehicles. While many
324 drivers may assume it is best to idle the engine for a time before driving the vehicle, initial idling is only
325 advisable in extreme cold in order to prevent engine damage. In milder weather, idling contributes to
326 higher emissions than warm-up driving, and does not heat the emissions control equipment as quickly as
327 driving (even slowly) for the first few minutes (Sentoff et al., 2010).
328
329 Since the operating temperature of the catalytic converter is crucial, one simple idea is to relocate the
330 converter closer to the engine, so that it will warm up more quickly. This has proven an effective strategy
331 in reducing emissions, but in the past has introduced unwanted heat into the passenger compartment
332 (Burch et al., 1995). More recently, exhaust temperatures have dropped and the catalyst has been placed
333 closer to the engine (Presti and Pace, 2011).
334
335 Catalytic converter technologies also continue to improve. For example, Nissan has developed a
336 hydrocarbon trap, using an innovative blend of silver and zeolite, which significantly reduces tailpipe
337 emissions by trapping some of the elevated hydrocarbons emitted by a cold engine (Hamada, 2009). As
338 this technology matures, it may become a standard feature of new vehicles, while adding relatively little
339 to the purchase price. Alternatively, car companies have long experimented with battery-powered pre-
340 heaters, but concerns about energy efficiency and equipment durability have prevented widespread
341 adoption. Recent improvements in battery technology have helped to make this a feasible option with
342 little additional fuel consumption, especially in hybrid electric vehicles (Presti and Pace, 2011).
343
344 One particularly promising idea is the use of innovative thermal materials in the catalytic converter to
345 retain heat longer and reduce the rate of engine cooling. National Renewable Energy Laboratory tests
346 showed that a prototype maintained high converter temperatures for 17 hours, as compared to 25 minutes
347 for conventional converters (Burch et al., 1995). A more recent study, using a phase-change heat storage
348 material, obtained reductions of 64% for CO and 15% for HC after a 500-second pre-warming period
349 (Gumus, 2009). This pre-warming involved the discharge of stored heat from the heat storage medium,
350 and did not require engine idling, so the catalyst’s improved performance came without idling’s added
351 emissions and engine wear.
352
353 This novel use of materials may eventually prove unnecessary, as computers are integrated into every
354 aspect of engine operation. Computerized fuel injection already helps optimize gas mileage and may also
355 be used in the future to minimize emissions in the minutes following a cold start (Spiegel, 2014).

 

[Norm Peterson]

Every 60 year old has been a 20 year old.

Which says nothing about attitudes not being locked in for all those years between 20 and 60. For some things, sure. Everything? Not hardly. Even at age 60, there are things not yet set in stone. Been there (about a dozen years ago).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Oh and for those who don't believe the science behind climate change predictions check out King Canute and his tidal escapades - you have a lot in common !! Just because you don't believe or understand it doesn't make it false !

This isn't a binary "believe or deny, true or false" situation. The best we have is computer modeling based on a relatively few years of direct observation plus a few thousand years worth of data that is at least somewhat subject to interpretation. Nobody knows the whole story, or how well the curve-fit computer solution is actually going to agree with the actual future experience. It's only a guess. Better than an offhand remark, but still a guess.

Put me somewhere in the middle, neither totally denying of the situation nor totally accepting of its claimed significance. Let alone the human-caused component beyond, perhaps, human population vs whatever level is sustainable with no net change.


Norm

 

[tcman54]

Now it's even infected Ford's monthly email news letter

 

[Docscurlock]

Now it's even infected Ford's monthly email news letter

It's not a bad looking car, just no reason I would ever want one. I have a pickup for daily driver and mustangs are toys to me. Luckily there are lots of used mustangs out there. Buying used is a better deal anyway. Out of all my mustangs only one was new.

 

[Sigma6]

Now it's even infected Ford's monthly email news letter

Subliminal messaging. The more you see without paying too close attention the more it’ll be normal. Classic 101 marketing. Without a sedan Ford needs something. The average consumer would say mustang or a truck if asked what ford does. They’re tying it nicely together.

 

[OX1]

And for those of you that haven't driven a high performance electric vehicle it will destroy anything with an ICE.

Really? This this is right up there with the fastest Tesla. And that is only a tune.

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/this-tuned-bmw-m5-has-850-hp-and-comes-with-a-warranty/

Sponsored