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2015 blue smoke on decel and hard accel

AlbertD

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I was also there at AMP that day and unfortunately no, the driver side catch can did not fix the issue. If anything, it prolonged the my track time before I started ingesting oil. I had to cut the day short after just 10 minutes into my first session, quite frustrating.

So I exhibit the exact same symptoms as you do. I enter turn 5 and then accelerate HARD coming out of 6... I will burn a bit of oil on that straight, but then after accelerating hard out of turn 8 there is an enormous cloud of smoke at that point and I can audibly hear the car detonating and loosing power. It clears up by the end of the straight.

I have the same issue at East track as well accelerating hard out of turn 1. Will blow a huge cloud of smoke down the straight and then it clears up.

Interesting enough, I don't catch a drop of oil out of the driver side catch can at West track or Indie. Blows my mind.

Here is what I know so far...

1. I have confirmed that the issue is with the driver side PCV system sucking in a ton of oil. It isn't traditional blow-by as the amount that gets sucked in is enormous. I filled up my driver side catch can in just 10 minutes of hard driving. I took a picture of how much the driver side catch can caught...

49225242718_aff0e149c1_h.jpg


2. I initially thought it may have been piston rings since I have been tracking the car hard since I bought it new and it now has over 50k miles... figured there must be some accelerating piston ring wear causing a ton of blow by at high rpm. Well I just did a compression test today and all cylinders were consistent and within 10% deviation from max/min. Service manual dictates that up to 25% deviation is within normal range, so 10% indicates to me that the engine is in great healthy condition.

3. The driver side catch can certainly helped, but it is not the fix. It filled up in just 10 minutes of driving on that track. The amount of oil that is getting sucked in is ridiculously excessive, which leads me to my next thought...

I am starting to believe it may be a design problem with the valve cover baffling... maybe... oil is getting trapped in the baffle during a certain series of high g turns and when you go WOT at that point in the turn the driver side PCV system will suck in a huge amount of oil that may be pooled in the baffle. I am not entirely sure how to fix this if it were the case... I wonder if the GT350 valve covers have better designed baffles? **Update: Just looked up GT vs GT350 valve cover part numbers and they are the same** I have heard of s2ks having this issue and the owners drill holes into the valve cover baffles to allow the pooled oil to drain out before it has a chance in getting sucked out the PCV system. I don't plan nor want to drill holes in the baffling. I would much prefer an OEM equivalent solution.

Today, I bought a Moroso oil pan hoping that the increased baffling and trap doors will aid in reducing how much oil gets sloshed up due to increased crankcase pressures... I'm not expecting this to fix the issue, but hopefully it will help at some capacity.

As far as the catch can setup, I plan to add either of these two things...

a. Add an additional large reservoir connected to the driver catch can drain so that I can run a 20 min session without the catch can overfilling.
b. Make the driver catch can drain into the Moroso oil pan

Option a prevents contaminated oil from reentering the oil system, but I starve the engine of that oil since it is no longer circulating through the oil system... although with the increased oil capacity of the Moroso oil pan, may not be a problem.
Option b allows the engine to utilize the full amount of oil capacity as oil will enter back into the oil pan, but the oil may be contaminated with condensation, fuel, etc... which, is not ideal.

So long answer short, unfortunately just doing the driver catch can is not enough.

Here is what my current setup looks like... I custom fabricated a mount to the fuse box out of aluminum and mounted two universal "large" Moroso air/oil separators. Pretty happy with how it came out. Next time you see my car out at the track, you should come by and say hello. I am typically out with ProAuto every month.

49225242693_882c449275_h.jpg
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AlbertD

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Similar issue just happened to me yesterday at AMP. A few laps I went into right turn 5 harder than usual and got some pretty thick smoke accelerating out of that corner and again out of the next left hander. Was pretty worried at first I did some damage but the car runs fine and didn't smoke at all today.

Didn't think about the necessity of a driver side can until now. I was thinking I overfilled the oil or something. Checked the driver side PCV line and sure enough there is oil in there.

Did the driver side catch can solve the issue for you?
I'd be curious to hear how many miles are on your car and if you have a tune. I have a friend (was driving the white s550 that day) that has exactly the same mods as I do, but he is still on the stock tune and is lower mileage @20kish. I'm running the FRPP stage 1 tune. I can't see the tune having influence on this particular issue, but may be an interesting data point.
 

thelostotter

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I was also there at AMP that day and unfortunately no, the driver side catch can did not fix the issue. If anything, it prolonged the my track time before I started ingesting oil. I had to cut the day short after just 10 minutes into my first session, quite frustrating.

So I exhibit the exact same symptoms as you do. I enter turn 5 and then accelerate HARD coming out of 6... I will burn a bit of oil on that straight, but then after accelerating hard out of turn 8 there is an enormous cloud of smoke at that point and I can audibly hear the car detonating and loosing power. It clears up by the end of the straight.

I have the same issue at East track as well accelerating hard out of turn 1. Will blow a huge cloud of smoke down the straight and then it clears up.

Interesting enough, I don't catch a drop of oil out of the driver side catch can at West track or Indie. Blows my mind.

Here is what I know so far...

1. I have confirmed that the issue is with the driver side PCV system sucking in a ton of oil. It isn't traditional blow-by as the amount that gets sucked in is enormous. I filled up my driver side catch can in just 10 minutes of hard driving. I took a picture of how much the driver side catch can caught...

49225242718_aff0e149c1_h.jpg


2. I initially thought it may have been piston rings since I have been tracking the car hard since I bought it new and it now has over 50k miles... figured there must be some accelerating piston ring wear causing a ton of blow by at high rpm. Well I just did a compression test today and all cylinders were consistent and within 10% deviation from max/min. Service manual dictates that up to 25% deviation is within normal range, so 10% indicates to me that the engine is in great healthy condition.

3. The driver side catch can certainly helped, but it is not the fix. It filled up in just 10 minutes of driving on that track. The amount of oil that is getting sucked in is ridiculously excessive, which leads me to my next thought...

I am starting to believe it may be a design problem with the valve cover baffling... maybe... oil is getting trapped in the baffle during a certain series of high g turns and when you go WOT at that point in the turn the driver side PCV system will suck in a huge amount of oil that may be pooled in the baffle. I am not entirely sure how to fix this if it were the case... I wonder if the GT350 valve covers have better designed baffles? I have heard of s2ks having this issue and the owners drill holes into the valve cover baffles to allow the pooled oil to drain out before it has a chance in getting sucked out the PCV system. I don't plan nor want to drill holes in the baffling. I would much prefer an OEM equivalent solution.

Today, I bought a Moroso oil pan hoping that the increased baffling and trap doors will aid in reducing how much oil gets sloshed up due to increased crankcase pressures... I'm not expecting this to fix the issue, but hopefully it will help at some capacity.

As far as the catch can setup, I plan to add either of these two things...

a. Add an additional large reservoir connected to the driver catch can drain so that I can run a 20 min session without the catch can overfilling.
b. Make the driver catch can drain into the Moroso oil pan

Option a prevents contaminated oil from reentering the oil system, but I starve the engine of that oil since it is no longer circulating through the oil system... although with the increased oil capacity of the Moroso oil pan, may not be a problem.
Option b allows the engine to utilize the full amount of oil capacity as oil will enter back into the oil pan, but the oil may be contaminated with condensation, fuel, etc... which, is not ideal.

So long answer short, unfortunately just doing the driver catch can is not enough.

Here is what my current setup looks like... I custom fabricated a mount to the fuse box out of aluminum and mounted two universal "large" Moroso air/oil separators. Pretty happy with how it came out. Next time you see my car out at the track, you should come by and say hello. I am typically out with ProAuto every month.

49225242693_882c449275_h.jpg
I think I saw you out there in the morning, didn't catch the smoke incident. I'll stop by if I see you at the next event. I typically attend every 4-5 months. Only been to AMP and Inde so far. Wondering if Chuckwalla is worth the drive?

I just turned 18k miles yesterday. I'm running an AED tune for the past ~5k miles since I now have long tube headers. This is my third track day with that tune, first time having this problem that I know of. Prior to that I had the PP2 tune.

Yesterday was the first event since I installed a bunch of Steeda goodies. Dual-rate springs on FP Track dampers and adjustable front sway bar and endlinks. My instinct says it is related to these parts since I'm cornering a little faster than before, and I definitely noticed the smoke only occurred when I hustled through turn 5 faster than I normally go.

What is your oil level? Has this been a constant issue for you or did it recently pop up?The night before the event I checked the oil and it was half way between the min and max lines. I added half a quart to bring it to the top. Part of me thinks this has something to do with it, because the first session I blew a huge smoke cloud, and subsequently each time it happened seemed like less and less smoke. I only noticed it on maybe 3 occasions. At first I was worried it was a ring or a valve guide. After quick run up the 303 after my first session I wasn't able to produce anything so I convinced myself it was related to the high g corner. Also the smoke was coming out of both mufflers equally and I figured if it was something mechanical it would most like be one cylinder and smoke primarily out of one side, even with a cross over pipe.

I am running a Bob's passenger side oil separator and did not notice an abnormal amount of oil in it. I am going to pick up one for the driver side since it definitely will add some time before the engine starts ingesting oil. I am also going to mark a line on the dipstick half way between the min/max and only fill to there. I also ordered some spare front O2 sensors since that much oil going through can't be good. My exhaust tips are WAY more black than they've ever been.
 
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bauern

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I am starting to believe it may be a design problem with the valve cover baffling... maybe... oil is getting trapped in the baffle during a certain series of high g turns and when you go WOT at that point in the turn the driver side PCV system will suck in a huge amount of oil that may be pooled in the baffle. I am not entirely sure how to fix this if it were the case... I wonder if the GT350 valve covers have better designed baffles? **Update: Just looked up GT vs GT350 valve cover part numbers and they are the same** I have heard of s2ks having this issue and the owners drill holes into the valve cover baffles to allow the pooled oil to drain out before it has a chance in getting sucked out the PCV system. I don't plan nor want to drill holes in the baffling. I would much prefer an OEM equivalent solution.
The GT350 does indeed have different part numbers. KR3Z-6582-C/D. Supposed to have better baffling to control this problem.
 

AlbertD

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The GT350 does indeed have different part numbers. KR3Z-6582-C/D. Supposed to have better baffling to control this problem.
Outstanding! I will have to try those out.
 

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AlbertD

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I think I saw you out there in the morning, didn't catch the smoke incident. I'll stop by if I see you at the next event. I typically attend every 4-5 months. Only been to AMP and Inde so far. Wondering if Chuckwalla is worth the drive?

I just turned 18k miles yesterday. I'm running an AED tune for the past ~5k miles since I now have long tube headers. This is my third track day with that tune, first time having this problem that I know of. Prior to that I had the PP2 tune.

Yesterday was the first event since I installed a bunch of Steeda goodies. Dual-rate springs on FP Track dampers and adjustable front sway bar and endlinks. My instinct says it is related to these parts since I'm cornering a little faster than before, and I definitely noticed the smoke only occurred when I hustled through turn 5 faster than I normally go.

What is your oil level? Has this been a constant issue for you or did it recently pop up?The night before the event I checked the oil and it was half way between the min and max lines. I added half a quart to bring it to the top. Part of me thinks this has something to do with it, because the first session I blew a huge smoke cloud, and subsequently each time it happened seemed like less and less smoke. I only noticed it on maybe 3 occasions. At first I was worried it was a ring or a valve guide. After quick run up the 303 after my first session I wasn't able to produce anything so I convinced myself it was related to the high g corner. Also the smoke was coming out of both mufflers equally and I figured if it was something mechanical it would most like be one cylinder and smoke primarily out of one side, even with a cross over pipe.

I am running a Bob's passenger side oil separator ad did not notice an abnormal amount of oil in it. I am going to pick up one for the driver side since it definitely will add some time before the end starts ingesting oil. I am also going to mark a line on the dipstick half way between the min/max and only fill to there. I also ordered some spare front O2 sensors since that much oil going through can't be good. My exhaust tips are WAY more black than they've ever been.
I normally run the oil at low-mid on the dipstick to allow room for expansion. I also noticed it happening progressively more when I moved up to RS4s, and then NT01s... so certainly has to do with higher g forces and accelerating out of the corner. I never had a problem when I was tracking on street tires. I also am running BMR's handling springs, FRPP track dampers and GT350R bars so the car doesn't roll all that much.
 
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AlbertD

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Well... just placed an order for KR3Z-6582-C. I'm not sure of the extent of the update with this valve cover, but I am hopeful that the improved baffling will help prevent the burp of oil. I should have the Moroso oil pan installed as well.

Will update the thread with my results sometime mid January (next track day). I am really hoping this problem goes away so I can continue enjoying this track season. Crossing my fingers!
 

thelostotter

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Well... just placed an order for KR3Z-6582-C. I'm not sure of the extent of the update with this valve cover, but I am hopeful that the improved baffling will help prevent the burp of oil. I should have the Moroso oil pan installed as well.

Will update the thread with my results sometime mid January (next track day). I am really hoping this problem goes away so I can continue enjoying this track season. Crossing my fingers!
When you receive it and pull off the stocker let us know what differences you see. I'm curious if it a different molded design or a modification of the same part. Curious about this part number since when I search for valve covers it always seems the GT350 and GT have the same applicability.

I ordered a catch can for the driver side to aid this problem but need a real fix. I'm running Continental ExtremeContact Sports but plan to move up to NT-01s once I wear through these and that will compound the issue.
 

AlbertD

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When you receive it and pull off the stocker let us know what differences you see. I'm curious if it a different molded design or a modification of the same part. Curious about this part number since when I search for valve covers it always seems the GT350 and GT have the same applicability.

I ordered a catch can for the driver side to aid this problem but need a real fix. I'm running Continental ExtremeContact Sports but plan to move up to NT-01s once I wear through these and that will compound the issue.
Planning to post pictures before and after.
 

shogun32

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My bet oil getting past the valve guides. Or the oil is sloshing so bad the crank is throwing a ton up into the cylinder bore and the oil scraper rings are unable to fully cope.

Has nobody swapped in the GT350's oil pan onto the Coyote engine? Part
GR3Z-6675-E
https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-oil-pan-gr3z6675e

might need a different oil pickup too.
Do the 15-17 cars have the crank splash guard?
 
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If I were to bet, it's oil pooling on one side. The better oil pan might solve the issue. This is why Ford missed the boat on the GT350 and kept the wet sump system. Lots of cars have this problem when they are modified to pull harder G's. It's also common for it to be only a certain direction due to how the oil pickup is positioned. The 3rd gen Viper engine has a problem with this, and in it's case the oil pools so high on one side that the pickup goes dry, you suck up air, your oil pressure goes down, and you fry the #3 main bearing. You can find youtube videos of people driving hard and you can literally see the oil pressure gauge tank.

The 4th gen viper fixed it with a "swinging arm" pickup that Dodge came up with for their race series viper. The pickup swings the same way the oil does, and therefore keeps pumping. A cheap "fix" for the 3rd gen guys is to run an extra quart of oil. Yeah it reduces power because of windage, but less power is better than spinning a main bearing.

I can't remember if the Coyote has a crank scraper. If it doesn't, make sure you add one when you replace your pan.
 

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looks like there is a thread about oil pans already.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/oil-pan-upgrade.59221/

The 18+ GT also gets a different oil pan compared to the "Ford made zero effort at oil control" 15-17 pans. I don't know what the internal differences are between it and the one for the latest GT350 (or even GT500) might be.

Or you can go for the Ford Performance pan: M-6675-M52RR
A tad spendy though.
s-l1600.jpg
 
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bauern

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looks like there is a thread about oil pans already.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/oil-pan-upgrade.59221/

The 18+ GT also gets a different oil pan compared to the "Ford made zero effort at oil control" 15-17 pans. I don't know what the internal differences are between it and the one for the latest GT350 (or even GT500) might be.

Or you can go for the Ford Performance pan: M-6675-M52RR
A tad spendy though.
The gt350 pan has the pickup molded in to the pan; you'll need the oil pump as well, same with the '18+ Coyote pan. The GT500 oil pan, pickup and pump is available as a kit M-6675-M52S for about $700.
en1790__1.jpg
 
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