Ford tells dealers not to advertise Mustang Mach-E under MSRP

[Bikeman315]

#NotAMustang

Amen...............

I think you're on the wrong thread. We are not discussing the Mach-E. We are discussing Ford and the industries selling practices.

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[OX1]

Honestly I do not believe we are past the early adaptor stage for the entire BEV category. I offer for your consideration that there is only one major player in the category and that ones products are not even available in all 50 states. Yes we are early on but the next five years will really tell the story.

The gov't has all but mandated it, so not hard prediction..............

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-credits-gm-fiat-20190603-story.html

 

[OX1]

I think you're on the wrong thread. We are not discussing the Mach-E. We are discussing Ford and the industries selling practices.

So, it is appropriate anywhere, anytime to remind everyone this is really NOT a Mustang......

 

[Bikeman315]

So, it is appropriate anywhere, anytime to remind everyone this is really NOT a Mustang......

Do you really think we need to be reminded of this at this point? We all know it and agree with it. Move on.

 

[Bikeman315]

The gov't has all but mandated it, so not hard prediction..............

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-credits-gm-fiat-20190603-story.html

This is really no great secret to those who follow the industry. Our government subsidizes just about everything. We do not get to pick and chose what they do.

 

[The_Phantom]

Dealers don't need massive sales staffs either. And they would prefer to have smaller sales staffs because it would be fewer people to pay. And dealers would rather have smaller store fronts because that would be cheaper for them.

So do you think dealers are doing things that don't work and don't help them sell more cars? The trends I'm seeing have been towards larger dealers, not smaller.

Your ideas sound fine, but I think the dealers are the experts on what works. They have provisions to sell cars online, but they don't depend on that. If most people bought online, the dealers would be shrinking in size so they could save money. I personally would never commit to buying a car online without looking at it and driving it first. But then I'm an enthusiast - some people might think of the car like an appliance and they might not care if there are blemishes on the car or problems that need to be fixed. Have you bought a car from Carvana?

Just want to point out some incorrect information here.

Dealers try to employ as many sales representatives as possible. Sales reps work on commission, and they view having a ton of staff as a way to create competition amongst reps. Also, the more sales reps, the less likely sales reps are to hit sales goals and qualify for bonuses. That's huge because the GM pockets the sales goal money that the reps do not get, so it specifically benefits him/her.

Dealers also love HUGE store fronts. The more massive, the better as it makes them visible but also makes Joe Smith who is looking for a car think that that particular dealer is very successful. Appearances are everything.

Dealers are absolutely doing things that don't work and don't help them sell cars. The management is stuck in the 1970's. That's why so many still do the four-square worksheet and the "hold on while I talk to my manager" bit.

Dealers are certainly NOT experts on what works. They resisted the Carmax no-haggle pricing method to no end, but in the end most wound up going with it as it is what customers wanted. However, they usually overprice their cars and refuse to move on price, thus hurting themselves to try and make more money down the road.

TL;DR: Having worked for auto dealers for most of my life and owning my own performance car dealership now, I can tell you the big dealers are not with the times and will take advantage of absolutely anyone they can to pad their pockets.

 

[Hack]

Just want to point out some incorrect information here.

Dealers try to employ as many sales representatives as possible. Sales reps work on commission, and they view having a ton of staff as a way to create competition amongst reps. Also, the more sales reps, the less likely sales reps are to hit sales goals and qualify for bonuses. That's huge because the GM pockets the sales goal money that the reps do not get, so it specifically benefits him/her.

Dealers also love HUGE store fronts. The more massive, the better as it makes them visible but also makes Joe Smith who is looking for a car think that that particular dealer is very successful. Appearances are everything.

Dealers are absolutely doing things that don't work and don't help them sell cars. The management is stuck in the 1970's. That's why so many still do the four-square worksheet and the "hold on while I talk to my manager" bit.

Dealers are certainly NOT experts on what works. They resisted the Carmax no-haggle pricing method to no end, but in the end most wound up going with it as it is what customers wanted. However, they usually overprice their cars and refuse to move on price, thus hurting themselves to try and make more money down the road.

TL;DR: Having worked for auto dealers for most of my life and owning my own performance car dealership now, I can tell you the big dealers are not with the times and will take advantage of absolutely anyone they can to pad their pockets.

There are dealers with sales people that don't work on commission. In fact, those are some of the larger dealers in my area.

If you can do better with a much cheaper setup, small storefront and almost no employees - you should be able to kick butt and beat all the existing dealers at their own games. Best of luck with your dealership. You should sell more than just performance cars, though. You should sell everything the "regular" dealers do.

 

[The_Phantom]

There are dealers with sales people that don't work on commission. In fact, those are some of the larger dealers in my area.

If you can do better with a much cheaper setup, small storefront and almost no employees - you should be able to kick butt and beat all the existing dealers at their own games. Best of luck with your dealership. You should sell more than just performance cars, though. You should sell everything the "regular" dealers do.

I have not seen a dealer that has a sales staff paid salary and not commission in my area. Apologies as it may be different in your area.

Thanks for the well wishes. It has been hard the last two years, but we are making it. The reason I focus on performance cars is because there is a large market for nicely built cars if sold at a fair price. Most large dealers don't really know what mods a car has, or care as they likely will send it to auction.

When I started my place, I wanted to be different than the dealers I had worked for. No games, no gimmicks, clean title only vehicles. I don't have the money to compete with the big new car dealerships, so I stick with my niche market which so far has been good to me. It's also cool to see the cars people bring in, meet other enthusiasts all day...not the worst day at the office.

Cheers.

 

[Hack]

I have not seen a dealer that has a sales staff paid salary and not commission in my area. Apologies as it may be different in your area.

Thanks for the well wishes. It has been hard the last two years, but we are making it. The reason I focus on performance cars is because there is a large market for nicely built cars if sold at a fair price. Most large dealers don't really know what mods a car has, or care as they likely will send it to auction.

When I started my place, I wanted to be different than the dealers I had worked for. No games, no gimmicks, clean title only vehicles. I don't have the money to compete with the big new car dealerships, so I stick with my niche market which so far has been good to me. It's also cool to see the cars people bring in, meet other enthusiasts all day...not the worst day at the office.

Cheers.

That sounds really awesome. I would never want to deny someone an honest living, so I don't mind that a dealer has to make money on every transaction. However, I agree with you that many dealers are very dishonest. That is one thing I really despise about some dealerships.

 

[The_Phantom]

That sounds really awesome. I would never want to deny someone an honest living, so I don't mind that a dealer has to make money on every transaction. However, I agree with you that many dealers are very dishonest. That is one thing I really despise about some dealerships.

Exactly my friend.

It's one thing to make money....dealerships have to. But when you cross the line into scalping people (like with added dealer markups "just because"), that's what I hate.

 

[OX1]

This is really no great secret to those who follow the industry. Our government subsidizes just about everything. We do not get to pick and chose what they do.

Not sure what that has to to do with the gov't, at this time, wanting only EV's sold and existing.

 

[Bikeman315]

Not sure what that has to to do with the gov't, at this time, wanting only EV's sold and existing.

Ok, sorry. I though we were talking about the federal tax credits. Too many different topics going on within one thread.

 

[OX1]

Ok, sorry. I though we were talking about the federal tax credits. Too many different topics going on within one thread.

It certainly plays into it. Yes, oil subz's and other factors enter into the final price of IC cars and their fuel, but none of that gives me a direct $7500 credit and zero road taxes.

And until that levels out, directly to the consumer, you won't know what true EV demand really is.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, of course, but the comparison doesn't really make sense. You are comparing a regular ICE car to a new emerging industry. Also the Mustang was an incredible exception not the rule. Nobody forecast the popularity of the Mustang at the time.

Both cars were significantly different from everything else at the time of their introduction. Just different in different ways.


Norm

 

[zackmd1]

Both cars were significantly different from everything else at the time of their introduction. Just different in different ways.


Norm

The mustang also came at a time when a generation had money to spend, cost of living and housing was much lower, and were interested in cars.... Plus the car was only $2368 starting which accounting for inflation is comparable to a $19.5k starting price. Was a very different time....

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