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LT5 in a ZLE - GT500 killer

DekiDoo

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that was before IRS and honest to goodness suspension engineering in the new 500.
The goals are different.

The old 500 was basically a lighter Hellcat. it was simply meant to beat the crap out of the competition in a straight line.

the new GT500 is a chassis tour de force. When you are talking chassis tuning, you are talking rigidity, geometry, and suspension.
The canary is lighter. The 500 has the better chassis. It’s inherently had the better contact footprint, but outside of the 350, the suspension setups have been soft.

the 500 has an optimum suspension for the track.

this comparison won’t look anything like the 2013.

Ford has shifted gears and isn’t looking backward.
You are the only person in the world that would think s550 is a better chassis than the alpha.
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9secondko

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This new gt500 specs seem far too similar to the hellcat redeye that is supposed to be the most track worthy hellcat, i believe the track pack will be able to beat the normal zl1 in all scenarios, thats good enough for probably 80% of the cases, but unless they go balls to the walls track suspension they wont get the zl1 1le save for the highest speed and longest tracks, and that will be mostly for the magazine numbers, reallity is that 90% of the gt500 owners wont ever step on a track.

Stepping up to the lt5 supercharger would be huge for the camaro, the current lt4 cooling is barely adequate for stock boost, and the lt5 has much better intercoolers, the downside will be that they would have to change the ECU for the one on the ZR1 that uses 8 direct injectors and 8 port injectors like the GEN 3 coyote does.
the referee won’t even compete with the 500 on the track.

Not even the base.

The 500 track pack will show the ZL1 1LE the door to the glue factory.
You are the only person in the world that would think s550 is a better chassis than the alpha.
I’ve stated why.
The true benefit of the alpha is it’s weight. It’s a payoff for a strong effort to perfect a platform leaving no stone unturned.

You see the superiority of the s550 in the 350 with a proper suspension, despite its weight.

the 500 inproves upon that and then takes that improved combo and dials it up to 11.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Performance results are what proved it.

you can put the most effort in and utilize innovative tech, but it doesn’t ensure you’ll come out on top. The results are what shows the superiority.

the alpha is the epitome of swinging for the fences and leaving no stone unturned in an attempt to maximize a platform to the ultimate degree. That’s commendable and it has paid dividends.

The 550 is set up for success from the get go. Unfortunately, Ford did not swing for the fences. It came in overweight and paired with unfortunate suspensions on most of the line.

Yet, with a proper factory suspension, it outperforms the alpha even with the addition of a “hardcore” suspension. And that’s despite a weight disadvantage.

Now, we see a heavy GT500 seemingly defying physics. It’s time to give the s550 its due.
 

DekiDoo

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the referee won’t even compete with the 500 on the track.

Not even the base.

The 500 track pack will show the ZL1 1LE the door to the glue factory.


I’ve stated why.
The true benefit of the alpha is it’s weight. It’s a payoff for a strong effort to perfect a platform leaving no stone unturned.

You see the superiority of the s550 in the 350 with a proper suspension, despite its weight.

the 500 inproves upon that and then takes that improved combo and dials it up to 11.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Performance results are what proved it.

you can put the most effort in and utilize innovative tech, but it doesn’t ensure you’ll come out on top. The results are what shows the superiority.

the alpha is the epitome of swinging for the fences and leaving no stone unturned in an attempt to maximize a platform to the ultimate degree. That’s commendable and it has paid dividends.

The 550 is set up for success from the get go. Unfortunately, Ford did not swing for the fences. It came in overweight and paired with unfortunate suspensions on most of the line.

Yet, with a proper factory suspension, it outperforms the alpha even with the addition of a “hardcore” suspension. And that’s despite a weight disadvantage.

Now, we see a heavy GT500 seemingly defying physics. It’s time to give the s550 its due.
While I agree the GT500 is a capable car, I don't think it will be able to beat a ZLE on track. We shall see. When you compare the egular SS 1LE to the GT350, it put down similar,or quicker lap times while on a smaller tire, and with less power. The Alpha is no doubt the superior platform, too bad the rest of the car followed the same formula the 4th gen Camaro did. At least the 6th gen doesn't look like a cat fish.
 

9secondko

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While I agree the GT500 is a capable car, I don't think it will be able to beat a ZLE on track. We shall see. When you compare the egular SS 1LE to the GT350, it put down similar,or quicker lap times while on a smaller tire, and with less power. The Alpha is no doubt the superior platform, too bad the rest of the car followed the same formula the 4th gen Camaro did. At least the 6th gen doesn't look like a cat fish.
the regular 350 beats the SS 1LE IN MOST TESTS, despite the SS having more torque and being lighter. The R beats it worse and in everything.

the s550 is the superior platform with room left on the table. The alpha is great as it’s maximized. Lighter and smaller with hardcore 1LE suspension. But the 550 beats it in spite of being larger and heavier when it is coupled with a competitive, yet more livable suspension from the factory.

In order for the alpha to perform, it needs a harsh suspension. The 550 performs even better without sacrificing everything to get there.

The zl1 1le is smaller, lighter, and has a no holds barred suspension setup in comparison to the GT500.

We will see how they play out. But at least one trim of the debut 500 beats it handily already on track. Possibly both. That’s despite weight disadvantages and a much easier to live with suspension.

can you imagine the 500 with a no compromise setup? It would be even more insane.

the best performing s550s outperform the best performing alphas. Therefore, the s550 is the superior platform.
 

DekiDoo

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the best performing s550s outperform the best performing alphas. Therefore, the s550 is the superior platform.
So if the ZL1 1LE beats the CFTP GT500, the alpha is the superior platform? I guess we will wait for that head to head.
 

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mJolnir

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the regular 350 beats the SS 1LE IN MOST TESTS, despite the SS having more torque and being lighter. The R beats it worse and in everything.

the s550 is the superior platform with room left on the table. The alpha is great as it’s maximized. Lighter and smaller with hardcore 1LE suspension. But the 550 beats it in spite of being larger and heavier when it is coupled with a competitive, yet more livable suspension from the factory.

In order for the alpha to perform, it needs a harsh suspension. The 550 performs even better without sacrificing everything to get there.

The zl1 1le is smaller, lighter, and has a no holds barred suspension setup in comparison to the GT500.

We will see how they play out. But at least one trim of the debut 500 beats it handily already on track. Possibly both. That’s despite weight disadvantages and a much easier to live with suspension.

can you imagine the 500 with a no compromise setup? It would be even more insane.

the best performing s550s outperform the best performing alphas. Therefore, the s550 is the superior platform.
The GT350R was faster than the z28 around laguna seca, but it was much slower in VIR, i think for the same reason the performance package 2 mustang was faster than the camaro ss 1le on VIR but not at Laguna Seca, a set of tires that can handle the heat from a longer lap better.

With a 4200lb curb weight i dont extect the gt500 to be a stellar car on the track, i think it could be stellar on rhe streets.
 

MaskedRacerX

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With a 4200lb curb weight i dont extect the gt500 to be a stellar car on the track, i think it could be stellar on rhe streets.
You mean, even though dozens of people who have actually driven the car on track - including automotive journalists, and a few professional racers - have said otherwise.

Gotcha! :like:
 

mJolnir

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You mean, even though dozens of people who have actually driven the car on track - including automotive journalists, and a few professional racers - have said otherwise.

Gotcha! :like:
Yes, apart from the subjective opinion of people who got invited by ford and want to be invited again, the only real data we have is 1/4 mile times, other than that we have nothing that we can compare to the already known competition of the gt500
 

millhouse

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The GT350R was faster than the z28 around laguna seca, but it was much slower in VIR, i think for the same reason the performance package 2 mustang was faster than the camaro ss 1le on VIR but not at Laguna Seca, a set of tires that can handle the heat from a longer lap better.

With a 4200lb curb weight i dont extect the gt500 to be a stellar car on the track, i think it could be stellar on rhe streets.
The GT350R never ran around laguna against the Z28 in a head to head. Unless of course you're trying to compare track times from different drivers and different years again...which is at the very least problematic and extremely inaccurate. For a refresher, you can read this article https://www.motortrend.com/cars/for...l1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/ where it was discussed why the ZL1 was 1.7 seconds slower....with the same driver but on extremely different days.

So, unless you really think the ZL1 is slower than the Z28...it's fairly safe to assume the GT350R is quicker at every track in the country...both small and large.

I'm also curious, why can't a 4200lb car be stellar on the track?
 

9secondko

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So if the ZL1 1LE beats the CFTP GT500, the alpha is the superior platform? I guess we will wait for that head to head.
Yes, apart from the subjective opinion of people who got invited by ford and want to be invited again, the only real data we have is 1/4 mile times, other than that we have nothing that we can compare to the already known competition of the gt500
An interesting take was from Autoblog. A journalist who’d driven both the C8 and GT500 mentioned something along the lines of not even being able to imagine the C8 coming close to the 500 in the track. After running both carS. Either he’s right or he’s wrong. But where there’s smoke, there’s fire. And the GT500 seemingly defying physics and earning the highest praise across the board is some thick smoke indeed.

even Moror Trend has a hard time trying to find something to nitpick, so they were reduced to branding the CFTP the “R” model. LOL

Can’t have a GT500 equivalent of a GTPP doing so crazy well, can we? They are going to poop their pants when the actual (K)r is released.

but we are talking in the present reality. Motor trend was so shook they had to pretend rebrand the car. That’s saying something big. Ford was wise to not launch with a manual. Made it very difficult for biased publications to get away with sandbagging.

even the usual haters were blown away. Actually, they seemed kind of giddy. That’s pretty much a sign of the apocalypse.

so the 500 is one of the HORSEman. Sorry. Pun fully intended. Couldn’t help it. It was just there...
 

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newmoon

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While I agree the GT500 is a capable car, I don't think it will be able to beat a ZLE on track. We shall see. When you compare the egular SS 1LE to the GT350, it put down similar,or quicker lap times while on a smaller tire, and with less power. The Alpha is no doubt the superior platform, too bad the rest of the car followed the same formula the 4th gen Camaro did. At least the 6th gen doesn't look like a cat fish.
Where are you getting your information? The two best sources we have for track ability are C&D Lightning Lap, and MT HotLaps. In the C&D LL reviews the PP2 is faster than the 1LE never mind the 350, in the MT HL the 350 is faster than the 1LE.
 

nastang87xx

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It's clear who's driven both a high performance derivative of the Alpha and S550 platforms and who's just driven an S550. The ZL1 1LE is an absolutely terrifying car to drive with a suspension that is disturbingly close to a full on race car. It's ungodly capable and will beat you into submission to extract everything from it. But if you're a smooth and competent driver, it's rewarding. It is so unbelievably agile for a car that almost weighs 3900lbs. But my god is it a dirty dirty kinky girl who demands the best and the most experienced...she doesn't open her legs for just anyone. I was not worthy.
 

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Where are you getting your information? The two best sources we have for track ability are C&D Lightning Lap, and MT HotLaps. In the C&D LL reviews the PP2 is faster than the 1LE never mind the 350, in the MT HL the 350 is faster than the 1LE.
Yet, in MT Hot laps the 1LE was still faster than the PP2. Lightning Laps show the 350R behind both the ZL1 and ZLE. And the Z/28. But we all know there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

The problem for Ford and the S550 chassis is all this magic hasn't trickled down to the GT level. If you want the best driving Mustang you need to pony up for the 350/r or GT500. Hell, you have to add camber bolts to even adjust the camber on a GT. Which is pretty ridiculous if you're buying the PP1 or PP2 'track package'. I got -2.5* in the front of my 1LE without having to add any parts.
 

9secondko

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It's clear who's driven both a high performance derivative of the Alpha and S550 platforms and who's just driven an S550. The ZL1 1LE is an absolutely terrifying car to drive with a suspension that is disturbingly close to a full on race car. It's ungodly capable and will beat you into submission to extract everything from it. But if you're a smooth and competent driver, it's rewarding. It is so unbelievably agile for a car that almost weighs 3900lbs. But my god is it a dirty dirty kinky girl who demands the best and the most experienced...she doesn't open her legs for just anyone. I was not worthy.
that was my point. In order for the alpha to truly handle, it had to leave no stone interned and the suspension is harsh. Rattle your ribs together harsh. the ZL1 1LE is everything the alpha could ever hope to be. GM didn’t care about how many would sell with it. They wanted to put those track numbers on a poster. And they SHOULD. The car is a monster. Truly great car. I’ve been a fan of the zl1 since before the 1LE. the ZL1 actually has a nice ride. The 1LE... the opposite of that. But it turns. Younger folks with money would enjoy the car simply due to its inherent prowess and would be willing to forgo the ride issues. It would be a bragging point. Someone who isn’t new to performance and was looking for a daily sports car most likely would not choose that trim.

If the gt500 track pack beats that with the nice ride it has, that’s a gigantic win in the s550 chassis column. Then, imagine If the 500 went that route on suspension... it would be unheard of levels of performance.
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