Socialism good or bad?

[3star2nr]

If the politicians would stop spending money on useless military projects we could have very affordable heath care. Just think what the Trillion dollars that is going to be spent on the grossly over budget and unable to fight F35 could for health care.

agreed 100%. The problem is politics is a for profit business nowadays. Thats why everything is fucked up. And why nothing useful can get done, and also why the only laws that make it through are the ones that fuck over ordinary people because we can't buy lobbyists, and offer cushy jobs, or pay them 20k per minute for speeches...

It's not even a republican or Democrat or capitalist or socialist issue. It's rich, and the politicians who serve them vs the fucked.

The best you can do is show up and vote for the people the media and system hates so you can have a laugh when they get butthurt that you defied them...

Thats until they do away with elections all together which they will soon enough...

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[Grintch]

Raising an Army and Navy, and by extension any other Military service is one of the specific powers granted to the Government by the constitution.

Powers not granted include mandating health insurance, providing health insurance, providing health care...

If you think the government wastes money with the F35 program, what makes you think the same government won't waste money on the bigger issue of health care. Just look at the history of bad care and over spending seen by the VA, Medicare, and Medicaide. We have been increasing the scope of government regulations and spending for health care since the 1960's, and the cost keeps spiraling higher and higher. Every solution seems to call for more government, and everytime it doesn't work and cost even more. I know, let fix the failure caused by government regulations and spending by increasing even more government regulations and spending. More government has been tried over and over again, and every time it got worse (or at least more costly).

We won't even talk about the great success and progress made in the education system, which below the college level is 80% government controlled. And at higher levels increasingly government controlled (and funded).

PS - "Entitlement" programs overtook military programs as the top area of government spending decades ago.

PPs - Just imagine, Trump in charge of approving that heart bypass operation, and keeping the cost down.

 

[1MEAN18]

Uh yeah...lets change our system of gov't to something that's been a proven failure everywhere its been tried over the past 100 years...please God no!

 

[Hack]

If the politicians would stop spending money on useless military projects we could have very affordable heath care. Just think what the Trillion dollars that is going to be spent on the grossly over budget and unable to fight F35 could for health care.

Protecting the people of this country is the most important duty of the federal government.

Health care is enough of a mess without the federal government getting more involved.

 

[1MEAN18]

Protecting the people of this country is the most important duty of the federal government.

Health care is enough of a mess without the federal government getting more involved.

We've gone wellllllllll beyond just protecting our people with our military. How is it we spend more $ than the next 9 countries combined on defense? With 2 oceans between us and the real threats, and 10's of thousands of our men and women parked in past hot spots acting like the world's policeman, I question how much we are protecting our people after decades of starting wars indiscriminately like we've been doing since Korea. Vietnam wasn't necessary, but we started that. We attacked a lot of people not involved after 9/11...and if you know the players involved in all that mess, some of them even wanted to attack Iran and other countries, essentially kicking off another world war. So I disagree with your assumption based on historical facts since WWII. But I don't disagree at all with what you said about healthcare, its a mess, and mostly because of gov't intervention, and it isn't getting any better anytime soon with the current set of idiots who are power hungry and pathological in their need for controlling things (politicians on both sides).

 

[Hack]

We've gone wellllllllll beyond just protecting our people with our military. How is it we spend more $ than the next 9 countries combined on defense? With 2 oceans between us and the real threats, and 10's of thousands of our men and women parked in past hot spots acting like the world's policeman, I question how much we are protecting our people after decades of starting wars indiscriminately like we've been doing since Korea. Vietnam wasn't necessary, but we started that. We attacked a lot of people not involved after 9/11...and if you know the players involved in all that mess, some of them even wanted to attack Iran and other countries, essentially kicking off another world war. So I disagree with your assumption based on historical facts since WWII. But I don't disagree at all with what you said about healthcare, its a mess, and mostly because of gov't intervention, and it isn't getting any better anytime soon with the current set of idiots who are power hungry and pathological in their need for controlling things (politicians on both sides).

I agree with what you are saying. Just like everything the government does, they do defense poorly at times and they spend too much money on it. My general rule of what I would prefer is to limit the government as much as possible in order to limit the mess they make and to reduce corruption. Corruption has a huge negative impact on industry in limiting innovation and progress. Political people always have their hands out and they are the most naturally corrupt people. It really sucks that our election system is basically a popularity contest, because in my opinion it puts exactly the wrong type of people in charge.

But defense is much more important than healthcare. Even if I thought the government did its job well and might improve the healthcare system, I would still much rather have defense as a higher priority.

Frankly I think most of the mess with healthcare has to do with liability, lawyers and lawsuits, and the FDA also has a big hand in healthcare problems. But that is a whole 'nother can of worms to get into.

 

[1MEAN18]

I agree with what you are saying. Just like everything the government does, they do defense poorly at times and they spend too much money on it. My general rule of what I would prefer is to limit the government as much as possible in order to limit the mess they make and to reduce corruption. Corruption has a huge negative impact on industry in limiting innovation and progress. Political people always have their hands out and they are the most naturally corrupt people. It really sucks that our election system is basically a popularity contest, because in my opinion it puts exactly the wrong type of people in charge.

But defense is much more important than healthcare. Even if I thought the government did its job well and might improve the healthcare system, I would still much rather have defense as a higher priority.

Frankly I think most of the mess with healthcare has to do with liability, lawyers and lawsuits, and the FDA also has a big hand in healthcare problems. But that is a whole 'nother can of worms to get into.

You and I have had some discussion "dust up's" but I think in the grand scheme of things, you and I are a lot alike, and carry almost identical opinions of most things. Your dead on about corruption...its pervasive, especially in our military's upper echelon. Eisenhower tried to warn America back in 1960 about "the military industrial complex" and yet nobody but us students of history have been much concerned about it over the past 6 decades. To our peril...and alas, how many unnecessary wars have we spent our blood and treasure on since then? more than I care to count...

 

[Hack]

You and I have had some discussion "dust up's" but I think in the grand scheme of things, you and I are a lot alike, and carry almost identical opinions of most things. Your dead on about corruption...its pervasive, especially in our military's upper echelon. Eisenhower tried to warn America back in 1960 about "the military industrial complex" and yet nobody but us students of history have been much concerned about it over the past 6 decades. To our peril...and alas, how many unnecessary wars have we spent our blood and treasure on since then? more than I care to count...

Agree and I think that's why both parties hated it when Trump reduced some military presence overseas. It always shocks me when some people don't notice that both Rs and Ds work together on some of this stuff. And the common thread I see is that Rs and Ds go together pushing towards bigger and bigger government. War spending is another source of $$ for government crooks to dip their beaks in.

 

[Rover]

Socialism works - until you run out of other people's money.
Young and poor people are attracted by what appears to be free stuff being offered like education and healthcare.

 

[1MEAN18]

Agree and I think that's why both parties hated it when Trump reduced some military presence overseas. It always shocks me when some people don't notice that both Rs and Ds work together on some of this stuff. And the common thread I see is that Rs and Ds go together pushing towards bigger and bigger government. War spending is another source of $$ for government crooks to dip their beaks in.

I'd like Trump a whole lot more (don't get me wrong, I totally agree with some of the things he does, I just can't stand how douchey he is at doing it) if he'd bring everyone back home from Germany, S. Korea and everywhere else, put them to building roads and bridges and houses here in the good ole USofA and let those other god forsaken countries learn to protect and stand up for themselves, or not. All we've gotten accomplished by parking tens of thousands of troops in Germany since 1960 is allowed Germany to spend money they shoulda been spending to defend themselves on social welfare systems, and better roads and bridges, while America's infrastructure has crumbled and turned into a 3rd world mess. Have you ever driven thru Detroit? Ever see pics of what Detroit looked like in 1960 compared to now? I think Hiroshima got off light if you wanna compare, speaking of that, have you ever seen pics of Hiroshima today? I rest my case. LOL

 

[EcoVert]

Protecting the people of this country is the most important duty of the federal government.

I agree with you but the F35 is garbage Lockheed martin controls every aspect of this looser it takes 12 hours to down load a mission into the aircrafts computer it can only dash into mach speed or it's anti radar coating burns off in a dog fight the F-16 can out maneuver it if you hang bombs on it it's no longer stealth. The Air Force has around one hundred F35's that are not upgradeable and at 110 million dollars a copy that a high cost for useless aircraft. I don't mind spending money on defense we have to but spend it on something that works new F15's come to mind.

By 2017, the program was expected to cost $406.5 billion over its lifetime (i.e. until 2070) for acquisition of the jets, and an additional $1.1 trillion for operations and maintenance, totaling $1.5 trillion for its estimated lifetime costs.[28][29] A number of design deficiencies were alleged, such as: carrying a small internal payload; performance inferior to the aircraft being replaced, particularly the F-16; lack of safety in relying on a single engine; and flaws such as the vulnerability of the fuel tank to fire and the propensity for transonic roll-off (wing drop). The possible obsolescence of stealth technology was also criticized.

 

[Hack]

I agree with you but the F35 is garbage Lockheed martin controls every aspect of this looser it takes 12 hours to down load a mission into the aircrafts computer it can only dash into mach speed or it's anti radar coating burns off in a dog fight the F-16 can out maneuver it if you hang bombs on it it's no longer stealth. The Air Force has around one hundred F35's that are not upgradeable and at 110 million dollars a copy that a high cost for useless aircraft. I don't mind spending money on defense we have to but spend it on something that works new F15's come to mind.

By 2017, the program was expected to cost $406.5 billion over its lifetime (i.e. until 2070) for acquisition of the jets, and an additional $1.1 trillion for operations and maintenance, totaling $1.5 trillion for its estimated lifetime costs.[28][29] A number of design deficiencies were alleged, such as: carrying a small internal payload; performance inferior to the aircraft being replaced, particularly the F-16; lack of safety in relying on a single engine; and flaws such as the vulnerability of the fuel tank to fire and the propensity for transonic roll-off (wing drop). The possible obsolescence of stealth technology was also criticized.

I can't argue with your points.

 

[watisthis]

Uh yeah...lets change our system of gov't to something that's been a proven failure everywhere its been tried over the past 100 years...please God no!

Sociality is put above the interest of the Society though, then you have an (extreme) doctrine based on Sociality called Socialism or in more extreme forms of equality called Communism. Venezuela could be called that, the USSR could be called that. BUT they should not be called socialist states because they have social features on their slate. They are or were socialists because the social doctrine was put above the interest of the people. An interest that required room for individual developement, enterprises and a freed market. Sometimes it is in the interest of the whole people to have individuals doing their thing, do their job and thrive or fail. This is why those societies are sooner or later facing a crisis. The same applies for the other side of the spectrum where too much is put in the hands of those looking for individual gain. Which always means that the society at large is losing. No matter if its due to absurd prices on healthcare or education, or if your potable water can only be used to wash the potty. Somebody is still making a profit out of it, but certainly not the society at large.

On the other hand, capitalism is just heading towards a cliff of global warming, resource scarcity and destruction of social values, while you as the passenger are jeering at the Commies who ran their car against the Wall of Economic Failure.

 

[Weather Man]

 

[1MEAN18]

yeah and no matter how you try to tell these commies it doesn't work they still want this stupid system that's killed millions and millions thru starvation and famine and gov't controlled targeted killings over the past 100 years. some people are just ignorant, and a lot of these liberals in America who believe the crap they say they believe in, should be shipped to Venezuala to live for a while, seems to be the only thing we could do to wisen their ignorant asses up!

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