Making power with Meth injection share your success.

[Roh92cp]

I've seen threads pop up here from time to time asking about making power with Meth, and I'm always surprised at how phew are using meth with these cars which so easily can make 800 wheel with some octane resistance fuels. With states like Cali's 91 and many with no E85, just seems this combo would have been well tested and shaken down by now.

So if anyone here has or is still making power with meth injection please share your experience. I'm interested in those making high 7 to 800 wheel with meth and or combinations like myself with Boostane 93 and meth.

I've been testing for 2 years and recently made some gains in my combination, and it seems less meth is better. Earlier this year I went with PBD Rob cal. My Stats below made 783 wheel 611 TQ 7700 rpm.

I'd like to know the following, like my info

Calibration = PBD
max timing = 22
base fuel octane = 93
Octane booster = 10 oz Boostane my DD cocktail
Meth mixture = 50/50
Nozzle size = 7GPH single pre throttle body
Meth system = AIS trunk AEM variable controller
boost = 15
Exhaust = catless lontubes full 3"
A/F change if any with meth = no change with meth 11.5

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[17gt3black]

Wow looks like you just listed the same setup that I have I just went down to number 3 from an 8 nozzle
Aem controller I run have run straight meth and went to 10.5afr. Short trim couldn’t pull fuel fast enough.on street just running boost juice so I don’t eat the pump to quickly. I am also running the killer chiller. With drag kit. 2 solenoids 1 for drag and one to switch between running threw or bypassing heat exchanger. Only difference is I have been tweaking the Whipple tune. I Like the fact that I can thrown on a 3.375 griptech and not have to worry about it. Just a quick change with flight control.
I’m am working on tuning the meth in thou other than that sitting about the same.
Race weight 4160. 10.5 136. Mt82 With 3.5 but snapped belt luckily always carry a spare belt in truck. Use to have a vortec so keeping belt in trunk is key.
Running PBD tune and having iat2 helping with adding timing? I was thinking of adding a Vmp iat2 for that reason. I can only see what my iat2 is by using my plx box to log iat2 and boost on ngauge
Would have starting posting mods but it would have been a copy past from yours lol.

 

[Roh92cp]

Wow looks like you just listed the same setup that I have I just went down to number 3 from an 8 nozzle
Aem controller I run have run straight meth and went to 10.5afr. Short trim couldn’t pull fuel fast enough.on street just running boost juice so I don’t eat the pump to quickly. I am also running the killer chiller. With drag kit. 2 solenoids 1 for drag and one to switch between running threw or bypassing heat exchanger. Only difference is I have been tweaking the Whipple tune. I Like the fact that I can thrown on a 3.375 griptech and not have to worry about it. Just a quick change with flight control.
I’m am working on tuning the meth in thou other than that sitting about the same.
Race weight 4160. 10.5 136. Mt82 With 3.5 but snapped belt luckily always carry a spare belt in truck. Use to have a vortec so keeping belt in trunk is key.
Running PBD tune and having iat2 helping with adding timing? I was thinking of adding a Vmp iat2 for that reason. I can only see what my iat2 is by using my plx box to log iat2 and boost on ngauge
Would have starting posting mods but it would have been a copy past from yours lol.

So your found gains dropping meth from 8 to 3 gph in meth, and your running boostane as well? time or MPH improvements? I've thought about the killer chiller, but in the end I went down a different rabbit hole with custom I/C setup full 1" system with massive EMP Stewart pump. I log everything including my I/C inlet and outlet temps and have two IAT2 sensors. For your information the VMP or PBD breakout harness IAT2 sensor isn't very accurate (-25 off at times) against my Zietronix ZT-2 unit read out on Ngauge. My IAT2 are very low and stable and never climb more than 10 degrees on full WOT pulls.

 

[17gt3black]

Yes running Boostane. I did see more of a gain. Going to the 3 It seems to be more of the sweet spot on my setup. Anything more I was losing. But I know I just need to spend a little more time on the tune and I know I could get dialed in better. Thinking I’m might try they flex fuel switch in the tune and see if that allows for more. Yeah be happy you didn’t go with the killer chiller I only used it and basically threw everything else out. Bought new a/c hoses just to modify to make for a clean leak free setup. To do it right that’s the only way to do it not enough hose to cut so new lines cut and soldered.

 

[17gt3black]

Here’s where I am spraying using a devils snow nozzle

 

[Roh92cp]

Yes running Boostane. I did see more of a gain. Going to the 3 It seems to be more of the sweet spot on my setup. Anything more I was losing. But I know I just need to spend a little more time on the tune and I know I could get dialed in better. Thinking I’m might try they flex fuel switch in the tune and see if that allows for more. Yeah be happy you didn’t go with the killer chiller I only used it and basically threw everything else out. Bought new a/c hoses just to modify to make for a clean leak free setup. To do it right that’s the only way to do it not enough hose to cut so new lines cut and soldered.

Are you tuning yourself via HPT or by Rob PBD. What would you dial in better for the meth injection, Fueling? Flex fuel switch I'm not familiar with what that could offer you with meth.

 

[ypena02]

Here’s where I am spraying using a devils snow nozzle

Where is the nozzle?

 

[17gt3black]

Sry hard to see there on the inside.

 

[17gt3black]

Yes I’m tuning it with mpvi2. Hpt.

 

[17gt3black]

The maximum-power rich air/fuel ratio of roughly 12.5:1 is about 85 percent of its 14.7:1 stoichiometric value. Methanol on the other hand, can go as rich as 4:1, which is about 62 percent of its stoichiometric value of 6.45:1
Wasn’t sure if I tried to flex fuel and maps. Idk just thinking out loud

 

[ahl395]

I've spammed my success with meth all over this board but now I have a chance to do it again! Lol

Running 93, I ran 12psi and between 15-18* timing depending on the tank.

Running 93 with meth I ran 15psi and 20-21* timing consistently.

Calibration = Lund
max timing = 21
base fuel octane = 93
Meth mixture = 60/40
Nozzle size = 20GPH (Dual 10s)
Meth system = Alky Control
boost = 15
Exhaust = Cat deletes, stainlessworks catback with 2.5" cores
A/F change if any with meth = Don't remember but STFT pulls fuel at WOT.

Personally (no hate) I believe the reason less meth worked better than more for you was the PD blower. Injecting before the PD blower is much different than injecting in an open pipe post-blower. No evidence or anything but I can imagine it responds much differently. Also, in general spraying more meth than what you need will just make it run overly rich and flood the cylinders with fuel. Too high of a water percentage will be more likely to quench combustion too.

Now for some interesting stuff, next spring I'm going to be amping up my meth system for my built motor. No E85 here and I want to take advantage of my stronger motor. Shooting for 900whp which is around the most I can get out of my P1X.

Moving to a direct port meth system with 9 nozzles. One nozzle per cylinder and one in the pipe. Since I will be relying on the meth for alot of power, I cant take the chance of uneven distribution in the intake manifold. Each runner will have its own nozzle, essentially making it a smaller second fuel system. Along with that I'm going to be running two separate failsafes. One for meth line pressure and one for AFR which will be mapped against boost psi. If it falls out of the min/max values at that psi, it will cut boost via my boost controller. I am excited to see the results of this, many have done it before on other platforms but I havent seen a coyote yet.

Here's my current nozzle placement, as far from the throttle body as possible. And here's an example of a direct port system.

 

[Roh92cp]

I've spammed my success with meth all over this board but now I have a chance to do it again! Lol

Running 93, I ran 12psi and between 15-18* timing depending on the tank.

Running 93 with meth I ran 15psi and 20-21* timing consistently.

Calibration = Lund
max timing = 21
base fuel octane = 93
Meth mixture = 60/40
Nozzle size = 20GPH (Dual 10s)
Meth system = Alky Control
boost = 15
Exhaust = Cat deletes, stainlessworks catback with 2.5" cores
A/F change if any with meth = Don't remember but STFT pulls fuel at WOT.

Personally (no hate) I believe the reason less meth worked better than more for you was the PD blower. Injecting before the PD blower is much different than injecting in an open pipe post-blower. No evidence or anything but I can imagine it responds much differently. Also, in general spraying more meth than what you need will just make it run overly rich and flood the cylinders with fuel. Too high of a water percentage will be more likely to quench combustion too.

Now for some interesting stuff, next spring I'm going to be amping up my meth system for my built motor. No E85 here and I want to take advantage of my stronger motor. Shooting for 900whp which is around the most I can get out of my P1X.

Moving to a direct port meth system with 9 nozzles. One nozzle per cylinder and one in the pipe. Since I will be relying on the meth for alot of power, I cant take the chance of uneven distribution in the intake manifold. Each runner will have its own nozzle, essentially making it a smaller second fuel system. Along with that I'm going to be running two separate failsafes. One for meth line pressure and one for AFR which will be mapped against boost psi. If it falls out of the min/max values at that psi, it will cut boost via my boost controller. I am excited to see the results of this, many have done it before on other platforms but I havent seen a coyote yet.

Here's my current nozzle placement, as far from the throttle body as possible. And here's an example of a direct port system.

Really nice setup on the individual port injection, no doubt that’s the best way to go. For sure centi and twin screw or PD setups react differently to meth. I’ve thought of doing individual port inject but access to the runners is difficult and maintaining and cleaning them would be a pain as well.

Did you ever verify power increase with meth injection. Reason I’m asking is earlier this summer when I first dyno with the PBD calibration I was spraying 20 GPH and with no knock and 22 spark I made the same power with whipple cal and 19 spark both 730 wheel. I think the added meth kept knock at bay but no more power was had with 3 degrees timing.

 

[17gt3black]

Nice setup yeah turbos and centrifugal are the best for setups for meth in my opinion. But definitely tuff getting it threw the PD. Saw one guy running a plate system on his Gt500

Check out this if you haven’t seen it already.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-blown-and-meth-injected-coyote-powerplant/

 

[Roh92cp]

Nice setup yeah turbos and centrifugal are the best for setups for meth in my opinion. But definitely tuff getting it threw the PD. Saw one guy running a plate system on his Gt500

Check out this if you haven’t seen it already.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-blown-and-meth-injected-coyote-powerplant/

Yeah seen that one, and again less meth is more power on a PD TS setup. Glad to see some people sharing here thanks

 

[ahl395]

Really nice setup on the individual port injection, no doubt that’s the best way to go. For sure centi and twin screw or PD setups react differently to meth. I’ve thought of doing individual port inject but access to the runners is difficult and maintaining and cleaning them would be a pain as well.

Did you ever verify power increase with meth injection. Reason I’m asking is earlier this summer when I first dyno with the PBD calibration I was spraying 20 GPH and with no knock and 22 spark I made the same power with whipple cal and 19 spark both 730 wheel. I think the added meth kept knock at bay but no more power was had with 3 degrees timing.

Yeah not sure if you'd be able to get access to direct port yours, but if you had a filter before the lines teed off and split up you shouldn't have a need to get to them. I thought about using an intake manifold spacer for mine but I don't think that would work for you either (havent seen an PD lower manifold in person though). A gen 5 Whipple with the inverted rotors would be doable. ProMeth has done several setups with the nozzles installed in the top cover of the blower.

Honestly I never did dyno to verify. I know I could feel a difference though when timing was down a 3-4 degrees. Doubt I'd be able to feel one or two degrees though. Unfortunatly I never made it to the dyno before my motor took a shit for other reasons lol. But I have high hopes to make it over 900 next year.

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