Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[newmoon]

First of all, cool to see you over here

Your comments (in bold) are interesting. I’ve found the exact opposite in driving LT1 Camaros and Coyote Mustangs. Since the LT1 has such good low end torque, just goosing the accelerator tends to provide a lot of excitement. I rarely even get near full throttle unless I’m on the strip or track or a wide open highway. For the Coyotes I’ve driven, including the Bullitt I had for a while a few weeks ago, it seemed like you had to have it up in the revs to have any real fun. The good thing is it’s not hard to get it up in the revs, especially with a 6MT. The B-I-G exception to that was the GT350 I had for a couple days. Fun at low rpms, freaky good at high rpms.

Should also point out that in Jason Cassima’s post over at a Corvette site, he says just the opposite. He implies that the C8 performs better than its numbers. Jason is the R&T driver / writer most often quoted about understeer.

I should have worded it differently. To me both the SS and the ZL1 while faster than my Boss didn't give me the excitement the Boss did unless I was hard on the throttle. I guess it is the attitude of the car is different. The 350 while not as angry as the Boss under 3500 just comes to life after that with gifts to all of your senses.

Sponsored

 

[18usc371]

Interesting: 558HP / 515TQ to rear wheels:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-power-dyno/

 

[ALUSA]

The c8 isn’t even a numbers car. Unless you are only counting 0-60. It does that very well. Everything else not even as good as older corvettes.

The c8 is currently a good hype car. It played the bait and switch pricing game well enough to get attention and mindshare. That’s a marketing win.
But... then actual people drive it.

Outside of the usual Chevy commercial by motor trend, the reviews are underwhelming.

Pretty sure the supercharged versions will be pretty intense though. The car is light enough and has enough traction to really show off some great numbers when it gets more power.

but as it stands right now, it’s a nice enough car that performs well enough and can be had for a bargain basement price.

Wow. You are so much misinformed my friend. It is not just 0-60 mph. It is in every performance metric except braking. Here are some examples between C7 Z51 vs C8 Z51;

0-60 MPH: 3.9s VS 2.8s
1/4 mile: 12.1s VS 11.1s
Road and Track Lap Time: 1:27.0 vs 1:26.1
Max Lateral G Road and Track: 1.3g vs 1.32g

Most important thing is acceleration and lap times. The 1 second difference for the 0-60 and 1/4 mile is a huge improvement. To actually show how big the gap is, it is almost comparing a supercharged c7 vs stock NA c7 kind of difference. Just thinking this C8 being this fast with the stock base engine is beyond mind blowing. It even gained weight.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Interesting: 558HP / 515TQ to rear wheels:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-power-dyno/

I think we should start using more like 10% for losses in more modern vehicles (so ~620), and then you're talking about 5% deviation from the factory spec which seems reasonable.

I mean, looks at the number Gen 3 GTs putting down 420rwhp (or more) through the A10, bone stock, I think they're closer to the 460 + dyno deviation + other_factors, vs. Ford cranking out 500HP cars that are marketed as 460.

 

[martinjlm]

I should have worded it differently. To me both the SS and the ZL1 while faster than my Boss didn't give me the excitement the Boss did unless I was hard on the throttle. I guess it is the attitude of the car is different. The 350 while not as angry as the Boss under 3500 just comes to life after that with gifts to all of your senses.

I’ve never driven an S197 Boss but I have driven 2016 and 2019 GT350. I can certainly agree that the GT350 does not have the low rpm blahs that I typically associate with the S197 and S550 Mustang GT. They were both fun to drive at any speed. The ZL1 on the other hand, both 5th and 6th Gen are giggle machines. There are two reasons I got an SS convertible instead of a ZL1 convertible. First and foremost....insurance would have been ridiculous on the ZL1 vert. But I am also self-aware enough to know that I would more than likely have gotten myself into some serious legal trouble if I had a ZL1 to play with everyday. Maybe my insurance company was onto something.

 

[shogun32]

I think we should start using more like 10% for losses in more modern vehicles

I rather doubt the industry has made that kind of improvement. The dual-clutch losses should be similar to MT losses, sure.

Here's some maths if you're so inclined to run your own calculations.
https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/drivetrain/transmissions/drivetrain-losses-efficiency/
And an humorous article (admittedly a bit old) as well.
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/

Everything has error bars. Short of running your engine on a dyno and then turning around and running the car on a chassis dyno and controlling for tire pressure, wear, suspension loading, drive-line temps, clutch slip, etc you're not going to get a useful set of data inputs to calculate drive-line losses.

There are far too many uncontrolled variables between the factory claimed H.P. number and you're chassis dyno run to infer anything about drivetrain losses.

15% is a decent-enough WAG but nothing more. Any so-called "gains" observed that are within 2-3% of claimed factory numbers are just measurement error.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

Interesting: 558HP / 515TQ to rear wheels:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-power-dyno/

That is interesting, that sounds unbelievable, that's supercharged horsepower levels at the crank, did they look under the hood for a blower?

 

[shogun32]

It would have been a simple matter to go visit a different dyno operator to see if the observation was repeatable. The best answer is to rip the engine out and measure it by itself but I have a suspicion GM PR would have objected quite vociferously. Maybe GM put one of their 'racing' cams in the engine "by mistake"?

With a C7 engine (LT1):

Lingenfelter has apparently found the sweet spot, as its heads-and-cam-based performance package takes output from the stock 455 horses to 550 crank (460 wheel) horsepower

Other CAM-only solutions produce 450@6400 RWHP. so the dyno results have a plausible explanation.

Is it any different then this a couple months ago?

My guess, something is very wrong with the options someone chose on the Dyno software during those (and prior Shelby) runs. The readings they got were probably already "computed crank" and MT double-corrected for drive-line losses.

I think MT needs to find a different dyno operator (or two)

 

[02gtnh]

It would have been a simple matter to go visit a different dyno operator to see if the observation was repeatable. The best answer is to rip the engine out and measure it by itself but I have a suspicion GM PR would have objected quite vociferously. Maybe GM put one of their 'racing' cams in the engine "by mistake"?

Is it any different then this a couple months ago?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-dyno-results/

 

[martinjlm]

My guess is that there will not be a GS model and go straight to the Z06 with some 700+ hp variant. The Zora will be the "ZR1" variant with 900+ hp and electric front drive assist.

*** Post quoted above is from another thread. This thread is more on topic ****

Actually, I expect that in addition to the 495 hp Stingray, there will be

• A 600 hp 5.5L NA model
• A 750 - 800 hp 5.5TT model
• A 1,000-ish hp 5.5TT hybrid + e-axle model

What I am less certain of is what each will be called. They could be GS, Z06, ZR1 in that order. ZR1 may or may not also be referred to as “Zora”.

But I’ve been told by someone I trust that the 600 hp NA version will be Z06. That would make the 750 hp model ZR1 and the hybrid “Zora”. That would support roygriffin2020’s idea that GS would get skipped. Thing is, GS is a big money maker, so walking away from it is unlikely. Could be that, like C7 GS, the C8 GS has same engine as Stingray but same body and suspension as Z06.

 

[Braski]

*** Post quoted above is from another thread. This thread is more on topic ****

Actually, I expect that in addition to the 495 hp Stingray, there will be

• A 600 hp 5.5L NA model
• A 750 - 800 hp 5.5TT model
• A 1,000-ish hp 5.5TT hybrid + e-axle model

What I am less certain of is what each will be called. They could be GS, Z06, ZR1 in that order. ZR1 may or may not also be referred to as “Zora”.

But I’ve been told by someone I trust that the 600 hp NA version will be Z06. That would make the 750 hp model ZR1 and the hybrid “Zora”. That would support roygriffin2020’s idea that GS would get skipped. Thing is, GS is a big money maker, so walking away from it is unlikely. Could be that, like C7 GS, the C8 GS has same engine as Stingray but same body and suspension as Z06.

Numbers looks awesome, I can't wait to see what reality looks like. I'm all about a manual but the light 600hp NA version does sound like fun!

 

[shogun32]

Is there really going to be a 'wide-body' C8? Seems like they would have dispensed with that song and dance with the new design.

I like the notion of the GS being LT2-based. But by the time you add Z51+MR, why not just offer an over-sized brake kit and call it done? Or is the GS at this point mainly just an interior package?

 

[martinjlm]

Is there really going to be a 'wide-body' C8? Seems like they would have dispensed with that song and dance with the new design.

I like the notion of the GS being LT2-based. But by the time you add Z51+MR, why not just offer an over-sized brake kit and call it done? Or is the GS at this point mainly just an interior package?

I am wondering the same thing. I’m sure there will be some body differentiation, but I can’t envision how to make it wider. The C7 Z06 is more than just a wide body Stingray. It’s actually more of a Z06 without the supercharger. But if the C8 Z06 is NA, there’s no supercharger or turbos to leave off. So then I’d imagine that the GS would have the Z06 body and suspension, but the LT2 instead of the 5.5L.

 

[jake_zx2]

*** Post quoted above is from another thread. This thread is more on topic ****

Actually, I expect that in addition to the 495 hp Stingray, there will be

• A 600 hp 5.5L NA model
• A 750 - 800 hp 5.5TT model
• A 1,000-ish hp 5.5TT hybrid + e-axle model

What I am less certain of is what each will be called. They could be GS, Z06, ZR1 in that order. ZR1 may or may not also be referred to as “Zora”.

But I’ve been told by someone I trust that the 600 hp NA version will be Z06. That would make the 750 hp model ZR1 and the hybrid “Zora”. That would support roygriffin2020’s idea that GS would get skipped. Thing is, GS is a big money maker, so walking away from it is unlikely. Could be that, like C7 GS, the C8 GS has same engine as Stingray but same body and suspension as Z06.

I would like that lineup. However, I have a really hard time believing the Z06 will be N/A and 600hp... Do you really think GM would make the Z06 have LESS horsepower than the previous generation? To me, that sounds like a marketing nightmare

 

[9secondko]

I would like that lineup. However, I have a really hard time believing the Z06 will be N/A and 600hp... Do you really think GM would make the Z06 have LESS horsepower than the previous generation? To me, that sounds like a marketing nightmare

There won’t be a 600 hp NA motor from GM.
Not a clean one anyway.
FI all day. And that’s where the car will shine.
Still waiting to see the numbers an actual production car produces though. That hasn’t been revealed yet.

Sponsored