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GT vs. EB high performance for city driving

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ForYourOwnGood

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Yeah. Believe it or not just a few of us Dont drive flat to the floor all day long. We are not talking about racing. I don't want to sound like a goon driving around town in second gear at 5000 or so rpm to get in the power. And with an automatic it will be constantly down shifting multiple gears. That's fine if many don't care about power at part throttle. It turns out others do and enjoy torque which unfortunately the Gt doesn't perform that great unless on the throttle heavy. To downshift one gear and accelerate 60 to 90 was better with the ecoboost. I didn't expect that. I was hoping the Gt was going to be a short shifting monster. In stocks form it certainly isn't.
Believe it or not? Well I don't, mainly because I owned an EB for just as long and just as many miles as the GT I have now. You're flat out making shit up.
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tw557

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So. Believe it or not that some of us don't drive flat to the floor all day long? I assume you did drive like that a lot and the ecoboost isn't all that much fun driven like that. But for a fact when I drove the GT the same as I drove the Eco it was 10 mph quicker up my mountain and a couple seconds quicker from 60 to 90 at about 1/2 throttle which was equal to one downshift on the auto.
 

ForYourOwnGood

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So. Believe it or not that some of us don't drive flat to the floor all day long? I assume you did drive like that a lot and the ecoboost isn't all that much fun driven like that. But for a fact when I drove the GT the same as I drove the Eco it was 10 mph quicker up my mountain and a couple seconds quicker from 60 to 90 at about 1/2 throttle which was equal to one downshift on the auto.
I drive my car like a normal person. Also, nobody believes you so you can stop with your "facts".
 

slink

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it was 10 mph quicker up my mountain and a couple seconds quicker from 60 to 90 at about 1/2 throttle which was equal to one downshift on the auto.
Please explain this "1/2 throttle" driving style. So did you just keep the accelerator pedal 1/2 way down during the 60-90 mph? Cause if you did, I think the car would stay the same speed.

I have a GT and don't drive full throttle all the time ( Goon style) ,but I do keep the car in the appropriate gear for maximum acceleration while in traffic.
This means my rpm's are about 3000-3500. The GT is a high reving V8 and a blast to drive when used properly. BTW, I have stock exhaust, so I remain stealthy.
 

tw557

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And that's fine is no body does. I have had a few honest GT owners agree to this until they tuned it. I hope that is true for when I get a used out of warranty GT and plan to mod it the way I want it. And sorry to say but with an automatic in the senerio I mention above, the mph and stop watch didn't lie. Even motor trend had an extreme comparison of the Eco and GT from 50 to 70 in high gear and the Eco was faster by a second. The difference was less on the manual I tested because I could stay in a higher gear and just give more throttle. As soon as I try in the auto it does extra down shifts which gets annoying. But anyway, you are more then happy with the GT power around town and I wish I was. Honestly though, each to their own.
 

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tw557

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Please explain this "1/2 throttle" driving style. So did you just keep the accelerator pedal 1/2 way down during the 60-90 mph? Cause if you did, I think the car would stay the same speed.

I have a GT and don't drive full throttle all the time ( Goon style) ,but I do keep the car in the appropriate gear for maximum acceleration while in traffic.
This means my rpm's are about 3000-3500. The GT is a high reving V8 and a blast to drive when used properly. BTW, I have stock exhaust, so I remain stealthy.
I'm was comparing to going down the highway at 60 and gave enough throttle to downshift one gear but just not downshift 2. The ecoboost was about 1/3 throttle and the boost was up around 13 or so. With a turbo car it will continue to acelerate strong with throttle at steady 1/3. With the same senerio the GT was a lot slower to 90. I drive a bit of highway and enjoy that effortless passing. But if I go flat to the floor honestly it's really disappointing and the GT really is awesome. I will also stay stock exhaust with the GT also. I really don't want the attention as I've grown older and don't race on the track anymore.
 

ForYourOwnGood

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I looked up that test you're referencing, the best part is the 30-50mph bracket in top gear which should according to your logic be a resounding defeat for the torqueless V8... EB takes 15.2 seconds while the GT takes 9.6. The 50-70 time is within a half second. As a matter of fact, reading the articles attached to them they praise the V6 power delivery a lot more.

Like, you do understand that the throttle by wire is tuned by Ford to do a specific thing for each car right? Cycling through the modes on a premium you can clearly see its just a software adjustment. They do that so dinguses used to a prius don't end up facing the wrong way with their first 400+ hp car.
 

tw557

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I always drive in sport mode to get the amped up throttle. Normal drive is pretty lethargic. I fully understand how drive by wire works. I figure this is why the ecoboost can do so good at low rpm. The pcm allows the turbo to spool up and deliver plenty of boost at light throttle. This is just something a n/a motor can't overcome. It can only suck so much air in. On top of that a n/a motor can generally be setup for top end or low end power not both. And in the case of the GT with a very high redline, the low end with be sacrificed.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm, in layman's terms, Horsepower is work done.

We have already had this discussion and I already pointed out something that most people do not know, that a car's acceleration follows the torque curve directly. More torque, more potential.
You have no idea how thoroughly I've been through this topic. But I can tell you that if you were going to calculate a car's actual acceleration run that it's easier to develop it around torque curve.


The reason why I said the v8 horsepower doesn't matter is because you never get to max horsepower when driving around town, so it's horsepower is insignificant. But it's torque delivery matters. So, we were talking directly about the correlation between a v8 and a turbo-4 and their dyno plots. Turbo lag, has nothing to do with a dyno plot, or horsepower, or torque. (You are talking about response time of an engine... throttle mapping, etc.)
Of course response time matters when driving around town. You will feel the second or maybe only half a second with a turbocharged car if you tip into the throttle below where any significant amount of boost is happening. Turbocharging is very much an exercise in "picking yourself up by the bootstraps". You need more boost to create more exhaust flow, and more exhaust flow is what it takes to make more boost happen faster.


You might of also missed what I said about a turbo-4 and a v8 having the same amount of torque, while the naturally aspirated engine only hits peak torque once, the turbocharged engine will maintain that same peak torque throughout most of it's powerband.
I didn't miss it because that was not what I was focusing on. You first have to get to that torque plateau (I think that describes current turbo torque curves better than 'peak').


PS:
btw, have you ever driven a modern day turbo...? Do you understand what a twin-scroll turbo is & does..? Why are you talkijng about turbo lag in year 2019..? EB have positive boost at idle...! And can have full boost as low as 2,300 rpms. Meaning, the EB can have 420ft-lbs of thrust at 2,400~ rpms, with a tune, if you can build an engine that can handle the stress/load.
I own one, and it does feature a twin-scroll turbo. And yes, it can be caught off boost, or at least down around where there's only minimal boost. If I really have to, I suppose I could video the boost gauge to show you that hitting peak boost (what you need for peak torque) does not happen instantaneously, and at what rpm it can finally be essentially at full boost. Maybe even do a frame by frame analysis to determine a little closer just how long it takes. But for now I can tell you that when the revs are much under 2000 the engine isn't nearly as ready to go as it is once it crosses through 2000.

That's on you for not bothering to read all of what I typed in the fourth paragraph of the post you actually quoted. You didn't read where I said that we are now on our second turbocharged car, never mind the part where I said that not all turbo engines behave identically. Yes, I know it's not the 1970's any more, that being when I first looked into turbocharging (I still have a couple of softcover books written by Hugh MacInnes). Or the 1960's, when I actually got to drive a turbo Corvair (kind of a neat little car with an absolutely horrible amount of lag). Basically, I have both real-world experience and some theoretical understanding to fall back on here.

I get that you probably missed the line of text under the picture in my sig entirely, the one that starts out "'19 WRX, 6M (the family sedan)". After all, it's way down there at the very bottom of the panel . . .


Norm
 

bluebeastsrt

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Sounds all very technical. Sounds like in layman's terms.. it's not the size of the boat it's the motion of the ocean. or something like that.
  • Laymans terms indeed.
 

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UserName

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I get that you probably missed the line of text under the picture in my sig entirely, the one that starts out "'19 WRX, 6M (the family sedan)". After all, it's way down there at the very bottom of the panel . . .


Norm
To be perfectly fair, I’ve never seen your sig until this post. For those of us that browse on a phone, the sigs only show up when you have the phone in landscape position. Rotate the phone to portrait and it’s never seen.
 

shogun32

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But for now I can tell you that when the revs are much under 2000 the engine isn't nearly as ready to go as it is once it crosses through 2000.
why would anyone who owns and drives a turbo car have the revs that low and expect anything but a sputter? I drive all my turbo cars at 2500RPM minimum in dynamic traffic (ie. where I'm likely to use the gas to any decent degree). The tachometer only sees below 2000 when I'm starting from a stop or I just shifted into 6th at lazy interstate driving.

Shoot I don't drive the V8's below 2000 either.
 

ForYourOwnGood

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why would anyone who owns and drives a turbo car have the revs that low and expect anything but a sputter? I drive all my turbo cars at 2500RPM minimum in dynamic traffic (ie. where I'm likely to use the gas to any decent degree). The tachometer only sees below 2000 when I'm starting from a stop or I just shifted into 6th at lazy interstate driving.

Shoot I don't drive the V8's below 2000 either.
Because thats where all the torque is. It makes 1000ft-lb like a diesel but remember you have to be at only half throttle.
 

Bald Menace

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I have a car that makes nearly 445 lb ft of torque at just 2000 rpm. sure it's fun but frankly for a daily driver it's unnecessary. I also own an A10 equipped GT and it doesn't feel the slightest bit sluggish around town. make sure you are certain about what you really want because it will suck for you to buy the EB and then find yourself wishing you'd got a GT
 

slag1911

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Bottom line... the ec0boost will walk any GT in a part-throttle contest. My own personal experience is as follows: I was cruising along at 35mph and an ec0boost came screaming by me. Before I even knew what happened, I was just another kill. They are just that brutal.... and lets not forget that glorious exhaust note!
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